Africa twin

I am going to go ride an AT with the DCT today and compare it to my Hyper.

I want one for a touring beast capable of dirt road travel but have not convinced myself that it would be better than the Multistrada or the Hyperstrada. It would probably be a fantastic commuter bike with the DCT however.

I would have one if I did not have the two Ducs. I think it would be very redundant to the Multi but also don't think it would replace the multi.

I shall see if the test ride happens.

My ride report:

If you are comparing the Honda AT with the Hyperstrada or the Multistrada you are on the wrong planet. Get in your space ship and go home.

Saying that I did love the bike. It would make a fantastic commuter, Highway, and dirt road cruiser. It is very capable of dragging hard parts with the 21" front wheel and the 270 degree crank engine feels right, like a twin should. The one I rode was the DCT and I got about 100 miles on it and felt I explored it properly. Manual is just like any other bike but you shift with your fingers instead of your toes. Auto mode is so relaxing it puts you to sleep but is perfect for that morning after heading to work in rush hour. The other sport modes change the shift points and give it a bit more zip over the RPM range. At any time you can shift no matter what mode you are in and after a bit of a delay it goes back to auto shifting. Did I mention if you get in the rough stuff you can't stall it. Major plus factor. The ONLY thing I did not like about the bike was with the DCT I had no feeling of my speed. It defeated the butt dyno. Of course you can look at the speedometer and it was not this way manually shifting the bike, but the visceral feeling between your body, RPM, gear, and speed was diminished.

If I was in the market for a big Adventure Touring bike like mentioned in the OP I would go for the Honda. The features, build quality and price point just make the most sense.

But since I already have the Hyper and Multi it makes no sense for me to trade and go this way.

So there is my 2 cents.

Tube tires?

That's so last century.

My friend rode the AT and hyper back to back. The AT is not really in the same category. The engine is very flat and dull. Decent power and very tractable but not exciting.

It won't handle nearly as well on pavement with the 21" front wheel and soft suspension.

It's incredibly good offroad.

The only issue I've heard that is widespread is the transmission is very clunky and people get false neutrals everywhere. Same with the new CBR1000R.... kinda odd of Honda.

I don't even consider these bikes to be in the same category. Honda would beat the Ducati in every regard off-road, and the reverse is true on pavement.

I am definitely interested in one and fear that if I ride one I will want to get one which is why I haven't ridden one.

My brother has his AT DCT up here in Montana where we are all hanging for a week. I took it out on a spin and the bike is really not comparable to the HS. Feels much heavier and as has been said it doesn't feel like a motard in any respect. It I were in the market for a true big dual sport i.e. BMW or KTM for primarily domestic riding I bet I would choose the AT, for reliability alone. I wouldn't choose any of those big bikes for a RTW.

bayotte said:

I don't even consider these bikes to be in the same category. Honda would beat the Ducati in every regard off-road, and the reverse is true on pavement.

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I haven't ridden the AT yet, but would like to try one. From reading dozens of reviews ... I agree. And beating the Duc off road includes ANY Multistrada ... which i HAVE ridden off road. It's a dangerous, very expensive Pig, IMHO. The Honda runs circles around all of them in rougher off road going.
The AT is clearly best of the "BIG" ADV bikes off road, yes, even the KTM's.
Yes, it's over weight and has a serious false neutral between 5th and 6th but still, for off road touring, hard to beat in heavyweight class.

MartyGarrison said:

My brother has his AT DCT up here in Montana where we are all hanging for a week. I took it out on a spin and the bike is really not comparable to the HS. Feels much heavier and as has been said it doesn't feel like a motard in any respect. It I were in the market for a true big dual sport i.e. BMW or KTM for primarily domestic riding I bet I would choose the AT, for reliability alone. I wouldn't choose any of those big bikes for a RTW.

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Yes, probably most reliable and least expensive to own over time. And I agree, for going RTW out of USA I prefer a much smaller, lighter weight bike ... like
my Suzuki DR650! Versatile, tough, capable and very inexpensive ... and I can work on it myself. If it blows up ... just walk away (I'll take Ohlins shock home) and buy another DR650.

RSL said:

Tube tires?

That's so last century.

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Tubes are a PITA for sure. Many serious over lander riders now going with the newer, less expensive BIB MOUSSE type inserts. Just have to plan your tire changes ahead a bit. More shops will be able to handle Bibs in future and new type said be easier to R & R .
Also, Tubliss system shows promise. (I am not a fan at present ... but watching)

Other option could be a product like Ride-On or SLIME. I've used SLIME since
1998 with mostly good results. Not perfect, but has saved me a few times in Mexico.

But you're right ... for that sort of money Honda should have included spoked
tubeless rims like several other OEMs offer. I would much rather dent a rim than have to change out a tube on a hot day with no shade about.

Pithymike there is a clutch fix for the motard that is on the forum. Check the mechanical and technical section. My clutch is smooth as butter now.

Good points Mike, but if you're seeking serious off road, honestly, I don't think the Africa Twin should be on the menu'. I did say it's "the best" of the BIG ADV bikes in the 1000cc to 1300cc class. But, when it comes down to rough terrain, no thanks. None are any good for that, IMO.

I come from an Enduro background (long retired), AMA "B" rider, 8 years. I still ride a bit off road but at 68, take it easy and conservative on my DR650 ... and am shopping for a WR250R.

Both bikes above will be seriously outclassed on highways or any super long distance ride of mostly pavement by any of the heavy weight ADV bikes, the new AT included.

Sure, the AT could probably do OK in Baja ... in the easier sections that I ride these days. But trust me, you can get into trouble there ... and in lots of other places too. Best travel in a group.

I've seen guys nearly destroy near new BMW GS's off road a few times in years past. Now, most abandon their GS's, bought new KTM 690's or, if serious about off road, KTM 500 EXC. Best street legal off road bike made today, IMHO.

If I bought an AT (I would not) I'd only be doing easy Desert, mild two track, usual Forest Service roads and paved roads. No rock gardens, deep sand or serious MUD. I'm sure younger, stronger riders could do it ... not me.

Mud is the great equalizer. Learned this riding a 125cc 2 stroke Honda in Thailand 20 years ago. Guys on C-90's riding TWO UP would pass me in the Mud, riding in Flip Flops and a baby on board. Serious.

Yes, my Mud technique sucks, but on a big, heavy ADV bike I would not have even made it through to next village. Small bikes have their place!

Want something in the middle between pure dirt bike and big ADV bike?
Really, take a close look at the ancient Suzuki DR650. Just a remarkable bike.

I'd take a look at the rally Raid cb500x. Surely down on power, but that 500 engine is a frisky puppy,but very tractable. The bike is like a pony with it's short wheelbase. Stable for the road though. Lot's of info on advrider. I had the cb500f and loved that bike - so much more than the spec sheet.

Yamaha is also coming out with a 700 enduro(?) based on the fz-07 twin. Should be interesting if they keep the weight reasonable.

Having been pinned under the strada offroad, it's always on my mind that if I'd been solo it could have been a bad situation. weight matters in more ways than one.

appliance821 said:

Having been pinned under the strada offroad, it's always on my mind that if I'd been solo it could have been a bad situation. weight matters in more ways than one.

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Having explored dual sport routes all by myself for many years there were plenty of times the bike decided on a dirt nap with one of my legs under the bike. So yes, I agree that weight is a significant consideration.



As important to me is having a bike that takes the falls without damage. To be able to complete the days ride no matter what.

All the big fat adventure bikes fall short when it comes to off-road drops.

From street touring to trail riding there is a long sliding scale between the two. No one bike does it all. Each of us need to choose where along this scale we wish to make our purchase.

For off-road explorations I will always choose a bike with real dirt bike roots. NOT a street bike converted to off-road.



But then, I have zero interest in RTW rides. In those circumstances, a simple mule of a bike is most important.

I've owned bikes across the entire sliding scale. For the right easy off-road experience, but with a strong street bias, and solid off-road riding experience, it is a pleasure to ride the big fat adventure bikes off-road.





In my mind, the Honda 1000 is an adventure bike that has more off-road abilities. The size and weight will be very tiring if the rider isn't an expert rider. Any sort of rock garden, sand or mud and you will quickly get over your head and require the help of friends to turn around and get out.

If commuting is 80%+ of your riding, pick any bike. Heck, a Honda 250CRF is tops. In traffic, small is best.

appliance821 said:

I'd take a look at the rally Raid cb500x. Surely down on power, but that 500 engine is a frisky puppy,but very tractable. The bike is like a pony with it's short wheelbase. Stable for the road though. Lot's of info on advrider. I had the cb500f and loved that bike - so much more than the spec sheet.

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I'm not a big fan of Jenny's kitted CB500X. See RSL's statement below to understand why. Chassis and geometry are wrong. It's also a bit heavy
... my DR650 is far easier to ride in tough conditions according to riders who've ridden both back to back.

If you watch Jenny's videos you can see that, IMO, CB500X Raid does not handle well in truly rough going. The DR is no Motocross bike but with good suspension is really quite good. Not sure how they would compare on the road, but I'm betting the DR650 would easily hold it's own.
But the weight, even on relatively lightweight DR650 ... is still substantial. Never been pinned by it ... but now, picking it up solo is tough for me.

RSL said:

For off-road explorations I will always choose a bike with real dirt bike roots. NOT a street bike converted to off-road.

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A few pics from Moab. I rode the DR650 out there ... and back! A friend carried the knobbies, had a shop mount them up there. Great riding, very little in
Moab I could not do.



Below pics from a ride 10 years ago in Copper Canyon. I helped pick up that GS
5 times before pulling the Doc off it and putting him on my Vstrom, which was actually easier to ride off road. He never fell again ... but was totally exhausted from the effort.

I got us lost ... real lost, ended up in prime Drug Cartel territory. A "real" Adventure in most remote part of Mexico ... all ended well. No injuries and just a slightly beat up BMW GS.

I'm little guy on right. The Surgeon in Yellow. (nice to have a Doc around
on this type of ride! ... never needed him! )

White Rim and the road down.

For the riding we did we found that trials tires worked the best. Oh so perfect for the sandstone.

But then, I don't ride like this:

Moab is also fun on 4 wheels. Rented these on a day off from a long tour.

For my money, I'd always take the KTM for dual sport. Challenging off-road and moderate commute on pavement to the ride.

Fuel injection. Ride by wire. Plenty of power. Quality components.



As much as I detest tube tires, carburetors are far worse. Especially with ethanol contaminated gasoline.

I learned a lot riding the KTM LC4 640. A lot from laying out dual sport rides with it and the XR650L. Thus, able to make a comparison. KTMs are different in a meaningful way.

Hyp Noob said:

I'm not a big fan of Jenny's kitted CB500X. See RSL's statement below to understand why. Chassis and geometry are wrong. It's also a bit heavy
... my DR650 is far easier to ride in tough conditions according to riders who've ridden both back to back.

If you watch Jenny's videos you can see that, IMO, CB500X Raid does not handle well in truly rough going. The DR is no Motocross bike but with good suspension is really quite good. Not sure how they would compare on the road, but I'm betting the DR650 would easily hold it's own.
But the weight, even on relatively lightweight DR650 ... is still substantial. Never been pinned by it ... but now, picking it up solo is tough for me.




A few pics from Moab. I rode the DR650 out there ... and back! A friend carried the knobbies, had a shop mount them up there. Great riding, very little in
Moab I could not do.

Below pics from a ride 10 years ago in Copper Canyon. I helped pick up that GS
5 times before pulling the Doc off it and putting him on my Vstrom, which was actually easier to ride off road. He never fell again ... but was totally exhausted from the effort.

I got us lost ... real lost, ended up in prime Drug Cartel territory. A "real" Adventure in most remote part of Mexico ... all ended well. No injuries and just a slightly beat up BMW GS.

I'm little guy on right. The Surgeon in Yellow. (nice to have a Doc around
on this type of ride! ... never needed him! )

Click to expand...

Dunno - there's no one answer. But Jenny, and KTMMitch have Dakar experience. She's done the TAT and he's ridden the Australian desert on one. She just called it the best all terrain bike she's ever ridden. And the thing is, they're also the specialists that KTM guys go to for rtw stuff.

I think you might be underestimating the route difficulty they choose. a lot tougher than the pics I see here. No dis - yours are tougher than most I've ridden,and I'm totally jealous, but she's in another class.

Some of it comes down to under stressed reliability and tractability (honda), VS highly tuned capabilities, but an element of fragility (KTM). And then it comes down to skills. The guys who rtw the KTMs can field strip them and rebuild on the road - and they have to.

Haven't read an rtw on the cb yet, but J'mo has crossed the US via the TAT and highway when the TAT ended , and is on another journey right now, and it's been trouble free. She rides very hard. Honda - they're very good engineers.

I'm with RSL on carbs etc.. I have friends with old CBs and carbs keep them off the road, stumbling on the road, running so rich you gag etc etc... You have to know what you're doing, and even then it's second best. Conceptually I love them - but I'd rather be riding.

Of course in most of the world, a 250 is the largest thing around, so a wr250r is probably the answer. It never ends and there's no one solution.

There is no one answer. That sliding scale thing. Choose the best tool for the task.

That said, why don't manufacturers rent the BMW patent for their tubeless spoked wheels?