On the fence

Bsucardinalfan · Apr 28, 2015

how is the bike lowered from the factory? i thought it was just a different seat for the 'low' version?

more importantly, how would you identify the low model if you just saw a bike sitting somewhere?

gatdammit · Apr 28, 2015

The Low is significantly different: different rear shock and linkage, seat and maybe the triple clamp. Overall geometry is altered. Pretty sure you can buy just the Low version seat and slap it on a regular, though.

Bsucardinalfan · Apr 28, 2015

gatdammit said:
The Low is significantly different: different rear shock and linkage, seat and maybe the triple clamp. Overall geometry is altered. Pretty sure you can buy just the Low version seat and slap it on a regular, though.

through a bunch of research since I posted that (and a lot of work not getting done here at work!), I think I learned that for 2015, there is only one option, the low one!

I thought my seat was lower than 33.5", but I didn't recall buying a "low" version of the bike....weird.

GTHawk · Apr 28, 2015

how was the bike lowered at factory ?????

Wife has a non lowered one with a lower seat. The seat been re worked to use gel instead fo the foam as the foam was DAM thin. Also worked the seat so its got more space but a passenger loses out (not that wife takes anyone on the back anyway). Sor stock suspension not seen a issue myself, can see doing springs but overall she has not complained and is height challenged. So ya love to know the diff for low version ?

zippy49 · Apr 28, 2015

Again, there is NO linkage on that shock. If the spring is too progressive, then change the spring. I can't see spending a couple of grand to make this something that it isn't. It's not a dirt bike (when has Ducati ever made one of those?), it's a sport tourer you can take on fire roads. Who needs six inches of travel for that? The latest Harley tourers get by with only two inches of rear travel, and they sure sell a lot of them.

OTOH, if Ducati didn't increase the spring and damping rates for the Low model, you would drag pegs etc. sooner. I would hope that they did. But the forks need work anyway, and there is plenty of preload adjustment at the rear.

Methinks that you might be asking in too many different places, Roadchick. I'd expect a suspension guy to try to sell you new suspenders...

And my offer of a test ride still stands. I don't weigh that much more than you.

Bsucardinalfan · Apr 28, 2015

GTHawk said:
how was the bike lowered at factory ?????

Wife has a non lowered one with a lower seat. The seat been re worked to use gel instead fo the foam as the foam was DAM thin. Also worked the seat so its got more space but a passenger loses out (not that wife takes anyone on the back anyway). Sor stock suspension not seen a issue myself, can see doing springs but overall she has not complained and is height challenged. So ya love to know the diff for low version ?

2015 bikes have 130mm fork travel vs. 150 for the standard height bikes from '13 and '14. different specs for fork oil quantity also. not sure what the actual difference is in the shock. also shorter side and center stands.

my bike sits about 6.5" off the ground at the skid plate, which matches the low model from '14. however it was not designated as a low option when I bought it, and it has the standard touring seat.

GTHawk · Apr 28, 2015

Bsucardinalfan said:
2015 bikes have 130mm fork travel vs. 150 for the standard height bikes from '13 and '14. different specs for fork oil quantity also. not sure what the actual difference is in the shock. also shorter side and center stands.

my bike sits about 6.5" off the ground at the skid plate, which matches the low model from '14. however it was not designated as a low option when I bought it, and it has the standard touring seat.

so sounds like they effectively used shorter springs and such to lower the bike. Trick there is net effect is a slightly shorter wheel base as well and who knows what that dose to the dampening and such. Note not a suspension expert but have a clue at least on how it works.

RoadChick · Apr 28, 2015

zippy49 said:
Again, there is NO linkage on that shock. If the spring is too progressive, then change the spring. I can't see spending a couple of grand to make this something that it isn't. It's not a dirt bike (when has Ducati ever made one of those?), it's a sport tourer you can take on fire roads. Who needs six inches of travel for that? The latest Harley tourers get by with only two inches of rear travel, and they sure sell a lot of them.

OTOH, if Ducati didn't increase the spring and damping rates for the Low model, you would drag pegs etc. sooner. I would hope that they did. But the forks need work anyway, and there is plenty of preload adjustment at the rear.

Methinks that you might be asking in too many different places, Roadchick. I'd expect a suspension guy to try to sell you new suspenders... And my offer of a test ride still stands. I don't weigh that much more than you.

I will take you up on that offer for a test ride! You have the same bike as me, I think? If so, let's coordinate it some weekend soon, if that is an option for you....

Paab · Apr 29, 2015

OK, I've been putting my Hyper through the paces and I still can't really find major fault with the suspension.

Fast roads it rails without wallowing. I will say that the lack of trail up front is noticeable as the bike does tend to hunt a little bit for the smooth line. any tension on the bars will magnify this a little. Perhaps that is what people are complaining about? This is a geometry issue and it will not be solve with fork settings. The shock with a little preload added (like7mm) never really got out of shape. BTW, this was tested by mysef at 135lbs and My fellow instructor and motojournalist at 150 lbs. Neither of us felt we would even change the springs!

On bumpy roads, this is the best Duc I have ridden yet. It remains composed and the seating position gives supreme control. That same lack of trail up front is present and can be felt as a little bump steer, but it's not bad. Again, a loose grip on the wide handle bars goes a loooonnnng way here. And again, both testers felt there wasn't any glaring need for correction.

I do think that the lower chassis might suffer a little more from these geometry issues, but I'd have to ride it to confirm. It's curious to me that the 2015 model has the lowered suspension as stock. They must feel it works better for most buyers?

This is an easy bike to ride, but it is edgy. It's not a japanese bike and it doesn't feel like one. I think adjusting ones riding style, and enjoying it for it's razor sharp feel might be better that trying to make it something it is not.

zippy49 · Apr 29, 2015

RoadChick said:
I will take you up on that offer for a test ride! You have the same bike as me, I think? If so, let's coordinate it some weekend soon, if that is an option for you....

PM sent. See you soon. My bike is a standard height Strada, though.

zippy49 · Apr 29, 2015

Paab said:
OK, I've been putting my Hyper through the paces and I still can't really find major fault with the suspension.

Fast roads it rails without wallowing. I will say that the lack of trail up front is noticeable as the bike does tend to hunt a little bit for the smooth line. any tension on the bars will magnify this a little. Perhaps that is what people are complaining about? This is a geometry issue and it will not be solve with fork settings. The shock with a little preload added (like7mm) never really got out of shape. BTW, this was tested by mysef at 135lbs and My fellow instructor and motojournalist at 150 lbs. Neither of us felt we would even change the springs!

On bumpy roads, this is the best Duc I have ridden yet. It remains composed and the seating position gives supreme control. That same lack of trail up front is present and can be felt as a little bump steer, but it's not bad. Again, a loose grip on the wide handle bars goes a loooonnnng way here. And again, both testers felt there wasn't any glaring need for correction.

I do think that the lower chassis might suffer a little more from these geometry issues, but I'd have to ride it to confirm. It's curious to me that the 2015 model has the lowered suspension as stock. They must feel it works better for most buyers?

This is an easy bike to ride, but it is edgy. It's not a japanese bike and it doesn't feel like one. I think adjusting ones riding style, and enjoying it for it's razor sharp feel might be better that trying to make it something it is not.

You will change your mind about the forks once you ride an 821 that has them fixed. This is not about geometry, it's about ride quality. The stock setup is harsh - not enough spring and too much compression damping.

Paab · Apr 29, 2015

I agree that they are undersprung and over damped, but that is the norm for streetbikes. In this case, it is much less of a problem than on other Ducs I've ridden. My point is that this bike is very ride able stock, not that it can't be improved.

There is a geometry issue at play. I have enough experience developing bikes to know. It would need a lot more trail to go truly fast around a corner in a stable, predictable manner. This same issue exaggerates deflection in bumps. So does gripping the bars too tightly.

RoadChick · Apr 29, 2015

zippy49 said:
PM sent. See you soon. My bike is a standard height Strada, though.

Oh? So you do not have the lowered bike??? This means that we will not be comparing apples to apples and the inside of the lowered bike is different..

zippy49 · Apr 29, 2015

RoadChick said:
Oh? So you do not have the lowered bike??? This means that we will not be comparing apples to apples and the inside of the lowered bike is different..

I wonder just how different they are...probably not much, just some plastic spacers. Still, you should try my RT setup. I'm quite satisfied with it. I assume you can handle the seat height, being a dirt rider and all.

zippy49 · Apr 29, 2015

Paab said:
I agree that they are undersprung and over damped, but that is the norm for streetbikes. In this case, it is much less of a problem than on other Ducs I've ridden. My point is that this bike is very ride able stock, not that it can't be improved.

There is a geometry issue at play. I have enough experience developing bikes to know. It would need a lot more trail to go truly fast around a corner in a stable, predictable manner. This same issue exaggerates deflection in bumps. So does gripping the bars too tightly.

A lot more trail? This is not a chopper. Ducati claims 4.1 inches, that seems like plenty. The trail goes away when you load the front in a corner because of the wimpy springs. The preload and compression settings try to compensate, but by midcorner (or sooner) it gets sketchy. The springs in my forks now are nearly 40% stiffer than stock, but the ride is much smoother. I have a bit of experience in this area too. I did not care for the OEM Pirellis, with the Q3s I have no trouble with stability at full lean.

Paab · Apr 29, 2015

If it has 104mm of trail, then that is plenty, but it doesn't feel like it has that much to me. I would have guessed high 80s low 90s. I'm still just working off of my first impressions and I just think there's a lot of questionable criticism here.

RoadChick · Apr 29, 2015

I just rode a new Hypermotard that belongs to one of the owners at South Bay Motorsports, and my conclusion is that the suspension on the lowered bike is jacked up compared to a non-lowered bike...It was night and day.......The extra fork travel in the front makes a HUGE difference!

RoadChick · Apr 29, 2015

This was his bike. He did not have the one with the upgraded suspension, the suspension was very similar to mine.

AussieHyper · Apr 29, 2015

RoadChick said:
I just rode a new Hypermotard that belongs to one of the owners at South Bay Motorsports, and my conclusion is that the suspension on the lowered bike is jacked up compared to a non-lowered bike...It was night and day.......The extra fork travel in the front makes a HUGE difference!

But don't the Hypermotard and the Hyperstrada have different front forks and differing rake.....this being the case you have apples and oranges...

You would expect a very big difference....

gatdammit · Apr 29, 2015

the 2015's both have "43mm standard usd" fronts. But the rear suspension on even stock Motard is different/better than Strada. Lower bars and different seat, too. All adds up to a slightly different ride, I suspect.

On the fence

Bsucardinalfan

gatdammit

Bsucardinalfan

GTHawk

zippy49

Bsucardinalfan

GTHawk

RoadChick

Paab

zippy49

zippy49

Paab

RoadChick

zippy49

zippy49

Paab

RoadChick

RoadChick

Attachments

AussieHyper

gatdammit

Similar threads