diagnostic plug for GuzziDiag

ferdi · Jun 1, 2015

diagnostic plug for DiagSoftware

history:
on my former MG Stelvio with IAW5 ECU i disabled lambda/O2 sensors with software from JP named Ducatidiag first (here is JPs new page with his SW, but his forum unfortunatly is closed) and later with GuzziDiag from Beard from german Guzzi-forum..
Stelvio had 3-pin diagnostic plug.

So, my attempts to use GuzziDiag on my HS IAW7SM ECU failed, because the only diagnostic plug i found is the 4-pin plug via CAN-bus.

I just had PMed the programmer of GuzziDiag and he told me, that he also found a 3-pin diagnostic plug (the old Ducativersion one) on wiring diagram of HS, but with wrong assignment of GND, which should not be the biggest problem to change on the connection plug (FIAT diagnostic cable) i have already.

GuzziDiag should be able to read and diagnose 7SM ECU, just by choosing California 1400 from available models, as the new California also uses 7SM ECU.
What i really want, disabling lambda control, will not be possible at time, as reading and writing map is not possible yet , but he is already working on this and this will come in upcoming releases of his GuzziDiag software (probably in a new IAW7reader and IAW7writer program).
Fortunatly Guzzi also uses 7SM ECU, so hopefully we soon will have a very simple and cheep possibility for a smooth and richer running engine without closed loop.
As disabling lambda control switches off closed loop, and open loop of the internal map is the only way ECU uses then.
by the way - his GuzziDiag software is free and you only can donate him, if you want.

Does anyone of you know where the 3-pin diagnostic plug is hidden on our HS ?
Should be in back, near ECU or in the tail.
maybe its easy and i can find it by myself when i can take a look at my bike in the afternoon.

gatdammit · Jun 1, 2015

In my experience, I'd rather work within closed loop and not disable 02 sensors. I've worked with car ECU mods in the past that tricked 02 readings to accept mods, and there were always drawbacks.

For just under $400 (Italian distributor on eBay), you can get the Rapidbike Evo that works in tandem with stock ECU, within closed loop and has a fantastic auto AFR/tune feature that uses all stock sensors. There is at least one other closed loop tuner, TuneBoy, I think. I went with Rapidbike because it's popular with they HyperMotard crowd.

I just finished installing mine this weekend but haven't been able to sew the bike back together completely yet. I'll leave an extensive post with pictures when it's complete.

And if you really like loading your own maps, there's a separate diagnostic plug ($90) to USB that can be purchased and you can build maps through free software.

BlueSwede · Jun 1, 2015

Gat, I'm very curious to hear about your experience with the Rapidbike and the auto tune feature, and what it translates into in on road performance. For me, manual tuning of the EFI is out of the question, but a smart system that measures it's own results and auto corrects seems reasonable, if a bit costly, granted.

ferdi · Jun 1, 2015

sorry, the question was not about another tuner or rapidbike, the question simply was for the second diagnostic plug.

and, you cannot compare a tuner which tunes closed loop with an ECU which completly runs in open loop without ECU always wanting to overrule tuner and wanting to get close to Lambda 1 in closed loop.

with deactivating O2 sensors and lambda control the bike simply runs over the internal map also at lower revs and lower load, as it always does in open loop at higher revs and loads.
you simply switch of lambda 1 regulation and let ECU use its internal mapping.

thats much much simpler and more efficient than a tuner.
if you want, you can then change the mapping also. but, basically the internal mapping is quite good and ok.

gatdammit · Jun 1, 2015

Well, your asking questions beyond any thread I've read on this site.

I still disagree that disabling lambda sensors is more "efficient" than a closed loop tuner that continuously monitors all stock sensors and adjust AFR in real time. With free software you can also adjust parameters to your needs.

I researched JPDiag. Plenty of people fried their stock ECUs. And if all you get is DP-like mapping, that's not peak performance.

ferdi · Jun 2, 2015

gatdammit said:
Well, your asking questions beyond any thread I've read on this site.

I still disagree that disabling lambda sensors is more "efficient" than a closed loop tuner that continuously monitors all stock sensors and adjust AFR in real time. With free software you can also adjust parameters to your needs.

I researched JPDiag. Plenty of people fried their stock ECUs. And if all you get is DP-like mapping, that's not peak performance.

please show me my questions I asked, this cannot be so many. I only have 69 contributions and some of them deal with my experience of installing and using the Andreani cartridges.

Anyway, i really do not understand why i should need an external tuner like rapidbike, powercommander+autotune or whatever, when you can go via the internal map directly.
i need no autotune feature which uses all stock sensors, bikes own ECU also uses all sensors automatically. so, the internal map is not a fixed map but also depends on air temp, pressure .....
an external autotune only can set e.g. the AFR to 13.5 instead of 14.7 in closed loop (and also in open loop of course). maybe also different AFRs in different closed loop regions.
but, bikes own map does exactly that. for each rpm and load condition it has individual parameters. an autotune only is necessary when lambda is active, to overrule the regulation to 14.7 = lambda1 in closed loop.
in an full open loop environment this is not necessary any more. the map is already in the ECU und not in an external tuner.

what happens when Ducati develops ECU mapping ?
they create a full open loop map over all rpms and loads and after that add closed loop region with regulation to lambda1 at low rpms and loads. and thats exactly what creates the rough running and surging. without that lamda1 regulation it runs quite smooth.

but of course - you can do and use what you want. i am not here to convince you, i just tell others that tuners are not necessary if it would be possible to run it in full open loop.

and, actually i only wanted to know where i can find the 3-pin serial diagnostic plug, if it really exists at the bike.

PS: i do not want to use JPDiag, actually i want to wait for GuzziDiag for 7SM ECU.

bolbotos · Jun 2, 2015

Hi everyone,

I still tested GuzziDiag with our MM 7SM ECU and this works well! Every measurement block and diagnose test is available. The 7SM ECU is also used in MG California 1400 and Aprilia RSV 4.

The diagnose interface is located under the seat in the area of the ECU. I can take a photo, if this helps.

CAUTION:

The pin assignment is not the standard one on the Hyper! If you connect your 3-Pin diagnose to OBD cable without reassignment, you can brick up your ECU.

I can post further information tomorrow (wiring diagram), if this is requested.

Kind regards,

bolbotos

ferdi · Jun 2, 2015

bolbotos said:
Hi everyone,

I still tested GuzziDiag with our MM 7SM ECU and this works well! Every measurement block and diagnose test is available. The 7SM ECU is also used in MG California 1400 and Aprilia RSV 4.

The diagnose interface is located under the seat in the area of the ECU. I can take a photo, if this helps.

CAUTION:

The pin assignment is not the standard one on the Hyper! If you connect your 3-Pin diagnose to OBD cable without reassignment, you can brick up your ECU.

I can post further information tomorrow (wiring diagram), if this is requested.

Kind regards,

bolbotos

thanks, bolbotos,

Beard wrote me that GND is switched between pin 1 and 2, i know that already. my problem really is that i cannot find the plug on my HS. just looked again yesterday afternoon, and i know how the plug should look like. Also found the wiring diagram in manual.
i only find my CANbus diagnostic plug, where i have an healtech gear indicator connected - HealTech Electronics Ltd. ? Smart Tech for your Ride ? GIpro DS-series .
a photo of the location and the plug would be really nice, thank you very much.

bolbotos · Jun 7, 2015

Hi ferdi,

sorry for the late reply. Hadn't had time to take the photo.
I attached a photo with the connector. It is located under the connectors of the ECU and it ends in the left cable assembly. Hope you find it on your hyper.

I don't know how to upload high resolution pictures. If you tell me, I can upload more detailled pics.

Have fun!

ferdi · Jun 7, 2015

thanks bolbotos,

immediatly after looking at your picture i went into the garage, and really, i found the connector, hidden under the Ecu-connections. i would have never looked for the plug there

. all cables are so tight and have no room so i never thought that there could be a plug underneath.

when i find time i will change my existing cable to really fit my Ducatiplug and then look at my ECU with GuzziDiag.
At time i am playing around with the Rexxer tuning. Until i get my <2production" files i changed back to stock today, because of the unstable idle.

Hopefully Beard finds time soon to create a reader and a writer for the 7SM Ecu also, and most important, that the version of the California 1400 uses the same adresses for O2sensors activation and heating as our bikes do.

Bilen · Jun 9, 2015

ferdi said:
thanks bolbotos,

immediatly after looking at your picture i went into the garage, and really, i found the connector, hidden under the Ecu-connections. i would have never looked for the plug there . all cables are so tight and have no room so i never thought that there could be a plug underneath.

when i find time i will change my existing cable to really fit my Ducatiplug and then look at my ECU with GuzziDiag.
At time i am playing around with the Rexxer tuning. Until i get my <2production" files i changed back to stock today, because of the unstable idle.

Hopefully Beard finds time soon to create a reader and a writer for the 7SM Ecu also, and most important, that the version of the California 1400 uses the same adresses for O2sensors activation and heating as our bikes do.

Nice work, keep us posted om the progress.

I'm having severe problems with surging. If this works, i will definitely try it out.

geronymo80 · Oct 21, 2015

bolbotos said:
Hi everyone,

I still tested GuzziDiag with our MM 7SM ECU and this works well! Every measurement block and diagnose test is available. The 7SM ECU is also used in MG California 1400 and Aprilia RSV 4.

The diagnose interface is located under the seat in the area of the ECU. I can take a photo, if this helps.

CAUTION:

The pin assignment is not the standard one on the Hyper! If you connect your 3-Pin diagnose to OBD cable without reassignment, you can brick up your ECU.

I can post further information tomorrow (wiring diagram), if this is requested.

Kind regards,

bolbotos

Hi bolbotos, could you give us the wiring diagram for 3PIN FIAT to OBD reassignment ?
Thank you

lomax · Oct 21, 2015

Tuned in to learn more. I have the full Guzzidiag setup that I used on my Stelvio with great results. Would LOVE to be able to use this program on my Multistrada and Hyperstrada.

Marc

dragoontwo · Nov 15, 2015

ferdi said:
thanks, bolbotos,

Beard wrote me that GND is switched between pin 1 and 2, i know that already. my problem really is that i cannot find the plug on my HS. just looked again yesterday afternoon, and i know how the plug should look like. Also found the wiring diagram in manual.
i only find my CANbus diagnostic plug, where i have an healtech gear indicator connected - HealTech Electronics Ltd. ? Smart Tech for your Ride ? GIpro DS-series .
a photo of the location and the plug would be really nice, thank you very much.

So do I only switch pins 1 and 2?

Looking at the bikes schematic it shows GND on pin 1 and serial line on pin 3.

kuksul08 · May 2, 2016

Bumping for more information.

Anyone have some directions for doing this on our Hyper 821? Would be great to access the ECU adaptations/service indicator on our own!

dragoontwo · May 3, 2016

kuksul08 said:
Bumping for more information.

Anyone have some directions for doing this on our Hyper 821? Would be great to access the ECU adaptations/service indicator on our own!

I got my cable up and running. I ended up buying a new connector for the harness, because the way they molded the strain relief prohibited me from just de-pinning the connector and swapping the locations.

When I get home, I can give you an exact pinout for what works.

kuksul08 · May 3, 2016

dragoontwo said:
I got my cable up and running. I ended up buying a new connector for the harness, because the way they molded the strain relief prohibited me from just de-pinning the connector and swapping the locations.

When I get home, I can give you an exact pinout for what works.

That would be awesome! Pinout, what cables you used, what software we need to use, any special things to know so we don't brick our ECUs

Thank you

kokoloko0778 · May 3, 2016

I succesfully conected to my hyper with guzzidiag and iaw7diag. But really can't make much. I wanted it to reset the service indicator but it is not possible yet. Maybe of future revisions?
I searched and Guzzi owners with de 7sm ecu also can't reset service as this option has been disabled from previous versions.

Enviado desde mi SM-N910F mediante Tapatalk

kuksul08 · May 3, 2016

kokoloko0778 said:
I succesfully conected to my hyper with guzzidiag and iaw7diag. But really can't make much. I wanted it to reset the service indicator but it is not possible yet. Maybe of future revisions?
I searched and Guzzi owners with de 7sm ecu also can't reset service as this option has been disabled from previous versions.

Enviado desde mi SM-N910F mediante Tapatalk

Hmm really? Then what can you do with it?

kokoloko0778 · May 4, 2016

Really not much. View readings from the ecu like temp, rpm etc.. it is still a little green for 7sm ecus

Enviado desde mi SM-N910F mediante Tapatalk

diagnostic plug for GuzziDiag

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