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Hyper-Disaster: Triptus Interruptus

Update

Upon further strip down they found a cam bearing seized (I need more info on specifics). :(

Lots of new parts coming: new cylinder, piston, rings, valve gear, pulleys, bearings and more I've forgotten.

Bottom end is OK.

No metal bits anywhere as contact of Piston and Valves was minor, barely made contact. I have not seen it, but will soon. I've asked for ALL old parts.

Mechanics are quite confident all will be well, they are replacing anything even remotely in question. Hoping for the best.

More updates to follow.

patrick
 
Interesting, I am pretty sure this is the exact same failure a friend of mine had happen to his Multistrada. All covered by warranty, it was a lot of labor so good thing it was covered.

-- Nathan
 
Upon further strip down they found a cam bearing seized (I need more info on specifics). :(

Lots of new parts coming: new cylinder, piston, rings, valve gear, pulleys, bearings and more I've forgotten.

Bottom end is OK.

No metal bits anywhere as contact of Piston and Valves was minor, barely made contact. I have not seen it, but will soon. I've asked for ALL old parts.

Mechanics are quite confident all will be well, they are replacing anything even remotely in question. Hoping for the best.

More updates to follow.



patrick

Sounds like they're doing good by you. Hope it's smooth sailing from here.
 
Best of luck, that sounds like a really odd failure. Good on you for asking to keep the old parts. They might not be able to however due to warranty reasons.

I'm shocked they were willing to cover it, but maybe it's a case of them covering their own screw up..
 
Did you get your bike back? Any more info on that failure?

I am very curious about how a cam bearing can fail, I've never heard of that one.
 
while we're waiting, how come Italian bikes are not as reliable as other makes of bike? or is that just a perception and not really the case?
 
Did you get your bike back? Any more info on that failure?
I am very curious about how a cam bearing can fail, I've never heard of that one.
Still waiting on parts ... but close to being able to re-assemble the bike.

What a saga!
7 weeks waiting for RPM Extended Service contract people to finally approve the repair. My local dealer stepped up and continually harassed RPM until they finally agreed under threat of double whammy lawsuits. (one from me, another counter suit from the dealer) Fraud.

I had two lawyers lined up ... after so much stalling and BS I was ready to jump in and sue these guys. Of course, the dealer gets sued too ... as they sold me the "product". So dealer then counter sues, RPM ... whom I would not recommend. A mess. But finally they paid.

RPM tried to blame a broken Cam belt for the failure, in which case they tried to say Ducati would be liable ... as the belt was "supposedly" just replaced at 18K mile service (a 1000 miles before the failure).

But it was NOT a belt failure that caused this ... and the dealer's Master Mechanic proved this. Somehow a cam bearing failed and seized, causing belt to de-rail and shred, resulting in damage to front cylinder, valves, piston, head, cylinder. All need replacing.

I'm still not clear WHY this bearing would seize. Engine was FULL of fresh synthetic oil. But, I guess this is not the first for this type of failure. It's all new to me ... I rely on you guys for knowledge and history with this bike. HELP!!!!

What do you guys think? Clogged oil passage?Bit of clutch material or metal blocking flow? Bad bearing from the factory? Engine run hard (not by me!) by PO causing bearings to shag out? (doubtful based on bikes condition)

What do you guys think?
 
while we're waiting, how come Italian bikes are not as reliable as other makes of bike? or is that just a perception and not really the case?
G'day Paul. Based on what I've seen (as a relative new guy here) the Hyperstrada's have a very good history regards engine reliability. Better than Hypermotard, which may see more track time, higher revs and some racing.

The 'Strada (generally) seems to have an easier life. Not much to report here. My bike's failure seems to be a bit of a rarity. Dunno?

I feel Ducati do have higher rate of issues vs. many Japanese bikes ... but are MUCH MUCH better than years past ... and I'd bet they are better then BMW's reliability and recall record ... who are the worst among major OEM's.

Talking to mechanics at two different Ducati shops around here, they say severe failures like mine are pretty rare. My advice? Good warranty.

I love my Hyperstrada, will try to keep it a while longer if it keeps running and doesn't have any more major failures.

As to the real "why" Italian products are less reliable could be debatable. Part could be culture? work ethic? I've never been to the Ducati factory ... but would love to visit. I have been to Triumph, twice ... before and after the "big" fire.

Also got a tour of BMW in Berlin (Spandau). (short, cheap tour .. but still) and got a nice look at Yamaha when I was there to interview CEO. Quick walk around tour as we there only to see the big man. (I do sound, film/TV/documentaries)

If you've been to Japan, spent a bit of time there, then spend time in Italy and
absorb the culture ... you might extrapolate and make certain assumptions. But there's more to it of course.

My experience tells me the Japanese are CRAZY anal about ... everything.
The Germans seem relaxed by comparison, very full of themselves and over rate their engineers where the Japanese NEVER brag. The Italians!? "lets have some more coffee and talk ... oh, look ... it's quitting time!

I never visited Ducati in Italy, but spent time there interviewing CEO's from
a few BIG companies and spent time in various factories, mostly shoe/boot production. Amazing how their industry works there. SO different from Japan, or USA.

My boss is a Japan Expert (Harvard Professor of Japanese ... and much more)
He's a NYC Jew who speaks Japanese so well, Japanese are positively gob smacked when he talks!

Funny to witness. 6'2" American speaking FLAWLESS
Japanese. You should have seen the look on Yamaha's CEO face when he met our guy.

But John was not happy with interview, said the guy would not open up, despite he being "nearly" a Japanese. We just got the standard stuff and ended up not using any of it in the film. Shame. I suggested we do Ducati ... and we almost did, but did Mercedes and Miele instead.

You really have to see how the Japanese work to believe it. Different world. But explains why it's so hard to destroy a Japanese bike! Even if you try! :D
 
Interesting read mate, I do agree with you, I believe its cultural too. I lived in Japan for five years many years ago and those sons of Nippon are machines. A lot of pride goes into their products, gotta respect them for that. You Americans tend to make a bloody good product too when you put your minds to it.. from my experience. Guess just hope you don't buy a Ducati that was built on a Friday afternoon :D
 
too much belt tension can cause a bearing to flog out.... but cam belts are all self adjusting via the tensioner hey?
 
ALL motorcycles are light years ahead of those that caused the reputations expressed here. From metallurgy to international component manufacturing, motorcycles aren't from any single country anymore.

I've had more issues with Honda than my Ducati because the Ducati is manufactured with the latest in component design. Heck, it's a VW. In hundreds of thousands of miles of riding, the only bike that left me stranded was a Honda.

I clearly recall the Gold Wing frame failures. Same with a recent generation of Connie.

The 821 engine was designed for reliable and long service life. That's why it weighs as much as it does.

The Canbus issue is a bit strange, but one that was solved under warranty. I have experienced how Ducati helps out even when the bike is out of warranty. Great guys.

The generation of Japanese with the work ethic recounted here is retired and passing away. Now Japan is switching to robots, importing foreign workers and outsourcing to other countries component production. How do I know this? I regularly watch NHK World TV and see what is going on today. I find it critical to be aware of Asian news, from an Asian perspective.
 
Interesting. As far as weight, I did a little comparison to some icons:

The strada is lighter than the famed norton commando, and depending on the model, it generates 100% more horsepower even if you believe old norton specs.. And compared to the iconic 77 ducati 900ss, which looks light and airy, it is 40-50lbs lighter and generates about 40% more power. Just idle puttering on my part.

As far as Japanese manufacturing - it's a philosophy("kaizen") and process that can be replicated anywhere by anyone. It is embedded deeply in their culture. In 1996 Porsche hired a group of ex Toyota engineers to overhaul their manufacturing process. It was a rigorous process that saved the company from bankruptcy, and put them on the path to making reliable cars.

I think that every rider owes a debt of gratitude to the Japanese for raising the standard of how reliable and useable a motorcycle should be. The idea regarding "handmade" is, to me , archaic. A ducati may be hand assembled (I don't know) but the engineering is computer driven, and the components that are assembled, are precisely manufactured by robots. at least I hope so!
 
Porsche .... put them on the path to making reliable cars.

Porsche sets a very high standard for reliability today.

2014-Ducati-Monster-821029-engine-X3.jpg


TECHNICAL ANALYSIS: Ducati?s 821 Desmo 8-Valve Testastretta Engine | Cycle World

"Which brings us back to the new Ducati 821, the first of the "old" family to replace the old angular contact ball bearings with plain bearings. This is a change more radical than it might seem, and it confirms what CEO Claudio Domenicali said a couple of years ago, when he made it clear that Ducati will proceed with two lines of engines"”the then brand new 1199 , and a constantly evolved Testastretta in various displacements.

At this stage, the liquid-cooled DOHC Desmo 8-valve Testastretta comes in 821cc, 848cc and 1198cc displacements."

The low displacement end of a range of cylinder sizes may suffer from a weight disadvantage, but gains in less stressed structure and components.
 
While I can't find the weight of the 821 engine, it is my opinion that the KTM 1290 engine weighs less.

I found some information. The 1290 engine weighs 136 lbs.

As for the 821, all I can do is infer from this:

"Taglioni extensively drew from the experience collected in years of honing the 250cc Desmo and the mighty 750/900 90-degree “bevel gear” V-twin in all its variations"
"the liquid-cooled DOHC Desmo 8-valve Testastretta comes in 821cc, 848cc and 1198cc displacements"
The 900 weighs 143 lbs.
 
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G'day Paul. Based on what I've seen (as a relative new guy here) the Hyperstrada's have a very good history regards engine reliability. Better than Hypermotard, which may see more track time, higher revs and some racing.

The 'Strada (generally) seems to have an easier life. Not much to report here. My bike's failure seems to be a bit of a rarity. Dunno?

I feel Ducati do have higher rate of issues vs. many Japanese bikes ... but are MUCH MUCH better than years past ... and I'd bet they are better then BMW's reliability and recall record ... who are the worst among major OEM's.

Talking to mechanics at two different Ducati shops around here, they say severe failures like mine are pretty rare. My advice? Good warranty.

I love my Hyperstrada, will try to keep it a while longer if it keeps running and doesn't have any more major failures.

As to the real "why" Italian products are less reliable could be debatable. Part could be culture? work ethic? I've never been to the Ducati factory ... but would love to visit. I have been to Triumph, twice ... before and after the "big" fire.

Also got a tour of BMW in Berlin (Spandau). (short, cheap tour .. but still) and got a nice look at Yamaha when I was there to interview CEO. Quick walk around tour as we there only to see the big man. (I do sound, film/TV/documentaries)

If you've been to Japan, spent a bit of time there, then spend time in Italy and
absorb the culture ... you might extrapolate and make certain assumptions. But there's more to it of course.

My experience tells me the Japanese are CRAZY anal about ... everything.
The Germans seem relaxed by comparison, very full of themselves and over rate their engineers where the Japanese NEVER brag. The Italians!? "lets have some more coffee and talk ... oh, look ... it's quitting time!

I never visited Ducati in Italy, but spent time there interviewing CEO's from
a few BIG companies and spent time in various factories, mostly shoe/boot production. Amazing how their industry works there. SO different from Japan, or USA.

My boss is a Japan Expert (Harvard Professor of Japanese ... and much more)
He's a NYC Jew who speaks Japanese so well, Japanese are positively gob smacked when he talks!

Funny to witness. 6'2" American speaking FLAWLESS
Japanese. You should have seen the look on Yamaha's CEO face when he met our guy.

But John was not happy with interview, said the guy would not open up, despite he being "nearly" a Japanese. We just got the standard stuff and ended up not using any of it in the film. Shame. I suggested we do Ducati ... and we almost did, but did Mercedes and Miele instead.

You really have to see how the Japanese work to believe it. Different world. But explains why it's so hard to destroy a Japanese bike! Even if you try! :D

I think all it takes is watching some of those assembly documentaries to get an idea of the culture at each company.

BMW
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntTsHrNJxyY

Ducati
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymlEExirBKg

KTM
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tcpmi-H1dtA

Honda
www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ_p_ICueaY

Just some examples haha. I like watching these.
 
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I find those vids fascinating thanks, very satisfying.... Beemer looks to be the most automated, and in fact the Japanese factory seemed the most haphazard
 
HyperStrada Finally Back On The Road!

After nearly 3 months waiting, I finally picked up my bike today. I can't have the old parts until the warranty company approves as they paid for them. I did inspect the damage a couple weeks back ... and frankly it was so minor I was surprised. They ended up using the cylinder as it was like new with Zero damage or contact, the Master Tech said the cross hatching looked just like a brand new bike ... (remember, this Hyper has 20K miles on it!) The valves were barely bent but the whole head was replaced, new cams, new belts, more. Piston/Rings remained, 100% un-touched and fine. I think i got lucky on this one!

The Mechanic could not offer any specifics as to why the Cam bearings seized.
Manufacturing flaw was about all I got. Although he did mentioned there was a bit too much side play in the Cam, so could have had an affect.

I insisted they check/clean the oil lines, check flow and measure output pressure of oil pump. I am told all is perfect.

The bikes starts and runs perfectly. Sounds absolutely normal. The Mech heat cycled it and rode it around for an hour before I got there. I heat cycled it two more times and called it good. Not redlining but riding normally. Backing off frequently. It appears fine so far. Only put about 150 miles on it today, trying to re-learn how to ride the thing. It's still a blast to ride!

I don't want to sell this bike but I probably should if looking at financial side.
It still got 20 months of warranty remaining ... and once that is gone, not sure
who would buy it?

Anyway, thanks guys for all the support and feedback.

I still need those bloody clutch parts if they ever come in. Although must say,
I've very nearly adapted to this damn grabby clutch!
:D
 
Minor update:
The total bill was just over $8,000! :eek: $6K in parts, $2K labor. The head alone was over $2000.

I'm glad RPM paid ALL of it ... it's more than the bike is worth! :p