Remapping a Hyper 939

Evening folks, have just bought a 2016 Hyper 939, am used to the generally awful fuelling of modern fuel injected Duc's when compared to a carb engined bikes but still live in hope of solutions,
I love lots about the bike, the light weight and handling is sublime but the poor throttle response at low revs, surging and lack of smoothness is not something I want to live with. So, here's my question - has anyone actually ever had a full remap done with a professional engine tuner and dyno? and if so did it cure all of the issues I mention.
I'll be quite blunt, I don't want to know about other mods which owners may have done, exhausts, tuning boxes etc, only if anyone has had the full monty.
There is not one single you tube review that I can find that shows anyone you has had this done so I'm loath to spend tons of cash only to be disappointed. Maybe I'm searching
for the Holy Grail which doesn't exist, a super smooth fuel injected Hyperstrada

I was talking with a local shop here about doing this. The guy claimed to have done this for another owner and that dyno + flash + a power commander for fuel control was the way to go. I didn't end up going through with it as of yet.

It is my understanding that a traditional"remap" of the OEM ecu is not something that can happen with the 821/939 for some reason. From what I understand you can install an upmap and have fuelung adjusted but I have heard if it were to complete smooth it out. The other option is to send your ecu off to rexxer (the only company that "truly" cracks the ecu) and make any and all the adjustments you want. I would think that this would be the best bet to complete resolve fueling issues because you can turn things on and off but if the ecu isn't capable of computing quick enough /smooth enough then the issue will forever be there. I have heard of some lunch with piggyback ECU's being successful in smoothing it all out if the O2 sensors are unplugged or a delete module is installed but I have had many of things done to my bike including a piggyback system and still live with the **** fueling under 5k rpm while holding a steady speed. Everywhere else the bike is fantastic but holding a steady speed under 5k chugs n pops and I hate it. I am actually in the process of receiving new throtlebodies as well as having the injectors pulled n professionally cleaned and specd to see if they match one another.

Curious to hear if that helps, my bike would chug, falter and backfire quite a bit under light throttle application under 5k. With the airbox lid and T800 tune it's much better but will still exhibit subtle symptoms from time to time.

guys,
have the same problem with my 939 hyperstrada.
have tried several maps made for me with rexxer evo, but none does really satisfy me and eliminates the surging. Also tried a rexxer map with lambda/o2 disabled, worked better but had other problems.
I now use a rexxer map together with a booster plug and the surging is completly gone. I am quite sure that booster plug alone does the job also.
booster plug is quite simple, it fools the ecu with the temperature pretending 20°C lower, you can see this also in display at actual temperature which is 20° lower than in real.
the result is richer running, which exactly eliminates the surging, with o2 sensor still active.

Ferdi,
For a minute I thought this was one of those eBay "Booster's" you plug into the powerlet port. This seams pretty legit.
Anybody think this would work in conjunction with RapidBike EVO?

The temperature-modifying Booster Plug did nothing for me, so I have one spare if anyone in the UK wants to try it. I went with the RB Easy and expert setting up, mostly because of curiosity and the reputation of the bike. Better is always an improvement even when nothing seems wrong, no?
I suspect my standard 2013 HS was never as bad as some of you here describe, and it behaves well with no obvious glitches. apart from the transient rev ramp-up on throttle closure which I'm told is common on recent Ducatis. Then again, I always run the touring map, so perhaps that gives the fueling an easier time? The dual nature of the bike on that map always brings a grin. Jeckyll and Hyde definitely, not that I can ever remember which is which!

Nick

nickwst4 said:

The temperature-modifying Booster Plug did nothing for me, so I have one spare if anyone in the UK wants to try it. I went with the RB Easy and expert setting up, mostly because of curiosity and the reputation of the bike. Better is always an improvement even when nothing seems wrong, no?
I suspect my standard 2013 HS was never as bad as some of you here describe, and it behaves well with no obvious glitches. apart from the transient rev ramp-up on throttle closure which I'm told is common on recent Ducatis. Then again, I always run the touring map, so perhaps that gives the fueling an easier time? The dual nature of the bike on that map always brings a grin. Jeckyll and Hyde definitely, not that I can ever remember which is which!

Nick

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Thanks Nick, It’s great to get different opinions, I wonder if it’s partly down to individual expectations of how people expect an engine to behave? I’m an old git so was bought up on carbs rather than fuel injected bikes, although carbs have their own issues I’ve always preferred them as they can give super smooth fuel delivery. When I first picked up my 939 Hyper, I thought there must be some sort of problem, surging, on off etc but the local Ducati dealer after a test ride pronounced that he found ‘nothing to cause him concern’ , he is obviously used to riding FI bikes. Having said that I also rode a 2017 950 Multistrada that was very smooth, the different maps did actually give quite varied characteristics, that bike of course uses a different ECU and mapping to a Hyper, shame Ducati didn’t realise when turned a Hypermotard into a Hyperstrada that the Hyper would be bought by bikers who wanted a lightweight super smooth tourer. IMO The Hyper has the potential to be the very best solo touring steed Ducati has ever produced.

nickwst4 said:

The temperature-modifying Booster Plug did nothing for me, so I have one spare if anyone in the UK wants to try it. I went with the RB Easy and expert setting up, mostly because of curiosity and the reputation of the bike. Better is always an improvement even when nothing seems wrong, no?
I suspect my standard 2013 HS was never as bad as some of you here describe, and it behaves well with no obvious glitches. apart from the transient rev ramp-up on throttle closure which I'm told is common on recent Ducatis. Then again, I always run the touring map, so perhaps that gives the fueling an easier time? The dual nature of the bike on that map always brings a grin. Jeckyll and Hyde definitely, not that I can ever remember which is which!

Nick

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Nick,
don't forget, this is the 939 thread. Maybe boosterplug does not work on 821 as well as on 939? Maybe its also different from engine to engine.
But with Euro3 821 you have much more possibilities to get engine run better and smoother. On my former Hyperstrada 821 I had a Rexxer map with disabled lambda/O2, this changed the complete bike, very smooth, no surging ...... Unfortunatly with Euro4 939 this did not work the same way any more.
But, for me boosterplug did the job at my 939 one so that I can live with it and it makes me happy. Without I always was little unsatisfied how it behaved.

821's suffered what many higher performance bikes that offered power modes/ traction control/ throttle-by-wire did from this era. The features were cool but, they were still working on smooth delivery. I remember journalists wanting to love hot models from KTM, Aprilia, MV Augusta but, they always had to knock fueling. It just doesn't like to go slow, which I don't mind so much. Hate traffic regardless of the vehicle I'm piloting.

Nick, Touring vs Sport certainly affects fueling. I'm a 90% Sport guy and swap to Touring when weather sucks or really taking it easy.

I have alwyhad the surging and popping and stuttering between 4-5k rpm from day one. I have done many many mods in the name of performance and to resolve this. I have reaced throtlebodies and sensors many times over only for the dealer to say it's normal. I have a RB tuner but will be adding a booster plug now. It will be here Fri or Monday. This makes sense that it would work because according to Yamen over at RB(he has also went into my system remotely to try and resolve the issue but from the first time I contacted him his first response was "good luck. Many Ducatis including this one are damn near impossible to clean that up all the way") no tuner works under 4-5k rpm on these bikes due to it heavily relying on the O2 sensors in that range. Disconnecting the O2 puts the bike in a open loop safe mode which is why many say this helps as opposed to the closed loop lean mode. The booster plug makes sense since it manipulates the ambient air temp and this is the only thing that can manipulate the O2 sensors into running more rich. We will soon see how it works out.

Araitim said:

I have alwyhad the surging and popping and stuttering between 4-5k rpm from day one. I have done many many mods in the name of performance and to resolve this. I have reaced throtlebodies and sensors many times over only for the dealer to say it's normal. I have a RB tuner but will be adding a booster plug now. It will be here Fri or Monday. This makes sense that it would work because according to Yamen over at RB(he has also went into my system remotely to try and resolve the issue but from the first time I contacted him his first response was "good luck. Many Ducatis including this one are damn near impossible to clean that up all the way") no tuner works under 4-5k rpm on these bikes due to it heavily relying on the O2 sensors in that range. Disconnecting the O2 puts the bike in a open loop safe mode which is why many say this helps as opposed to the closed loop lean mode. The booster plug makes sense since it manipulates the ambient air temp and this is the only thing that can manipulate the O2 sensors into running more rich. We will soon see how it works out.

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It will be great to get your feedback when you’ve installed the plug, the only thing I don’t understand is presumably it increases the fuel across the whole rev range, therefore at 5k+, will it not be running rich?

ducman said:

It will be great to get your feedback when you’ve installed the plug, the only thing I don’t understand is presumably it increases the fuel across the whole rev range, therefore at 5k+, will it not be running rich?

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The O2 sensors stop reading after 5k(might be somewhere between 4-5k) so after that I'm thinking it would go to the Rapidbike and ECU but I'm not sure. Either way, if it's running rich I can take fuel out with the RB.

Tim, so you are gonna try Booster with RB? I ordered one but it had to ship to my folks since I can only get USPS. The customer service rep I contacted about shipping was very prompt and engaging. I feel they have great customer support, which is always a plus.

I suspect the major difference between the Sport and Touring maps is the throttle ramp, rather than the mixture control or fueling. In Touring, the first few degrees of twistgrip give a gentle and controlled increase in power output, followed by a major kick in the pants with more twist. This makes low-speed moves massively easier and safer in my view, but doesn't reduce the satisfaction to be had when underway and conditions allow more speed. Some electronic-throttle cars are like this too. My current Audi A4 diesel is positively sluggish initially but picks up well with more pedal pressure, whereas my previous A4 diesel had a linear ramp and felt much more responsive.

I guess I'm in the minority here, because there are few bikes I've had where I didn't make the throttle response more progressive than the manufacturer did. Fortunately, Ducati got it right (for me) with the Touring map on the 'Strada. Might some of the problems with HM and HS machines be related to the aggressive throttle map in the Sport mode?

gatdammit said:

Tim, so you are gonna try Booster with RB? I ordered one but it had to ship to my folks since I can only get USPS. The customer service rep I contacted about shipping was very prompt and engaging. I feel they have great customer support, which is always a plus.

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Yes. It's already in the mail. Says it will be here on Monday. I will run it with the RB(or power commander if this doesn't resolve the issue) and see what happens. It makes sense to me as to why it would work and no tuner would work if what Yamen said is true. This just changes the ambient air temp by -20° making the system think it's cold out so it adds more fuel. We will see if it fixes my life long 4-5k rpm stumble

nickwst4 said:

I suspect the major difference between the Sport and Touring maps is the throttle ramp, rather than the mixture control or fueling. In Touring, the first few degrees of twistgrip give a gentle and controlled increase in power output, followed by a major kick in the pants with more twist. This makes low-speed moves massively easier and safer in my view, but doesn't reduce the satisfaction to be had when underway and conditions allow more speed. Some electronic-throttle cars are like this too. My current Audi A4 diesel is positively sluggish initially but picks up well with more pedal pressure, whereas my previous A4 diesel had a linear ramp and felt much more responsive.

I guess I'm in the minority here, because there are few bikes I've had where I didn't make the throttle response more progressive than the manufacturer did. Fortunately, Ducati got it right (for me) with the Touring map on the 'Strada. Might some of the problems with HM and HS machines be related to the aggressive throttle map in the Sport mode?

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I get the same stumble between 4-5k rpm in any of the modes. I prefer the sport mode because I like the snap and twitchiness of the bike (other than the 4-5k stumbling and popping and surfing) especially after installing the light weight flywheel. Makes the bike very agressive, a very controlled aggressive twitchiness. More like a refined purpose built machine and less of a do all numb bike to meet regulations and appease the world(that might be able to be taken as an insult but I do not mean it as an insult. I cant think of the words to convey what I'm trying to say)

Nick, what you surmise about the difference between Touring/ Sport (actually PWR MED/ HIGH, which can be manipulated in any driving mode). Same 110 HP, dampened throttle respons in Touring/ MED. I'm with Tim, in that I live to crack the shifter down a few cogs and get an immediate launch, or slide the rear from time to time.

I also had(?) a persistent misfire/ stumble like Tim in 2nd gear at 8K rpm under heavy throttle application. PWR mode did not matter.

it's right that O2 sensors stop reading above 4500-5000 rpm and above some 30-40% power retrieving, then it gets into open loop without O2 influence and only uses the internal ECU-map.
But, temperature also influences the internal map, of course. So I suppose its a little rich in open loop with boosterplug, but I do not recognize it compared to running without boosterplug.

Right. The RB (Evo) has a setting to bypass O2 readings. Must be more to it than just O2s below 5K or the RB is lying.