Fork mounted driving lights?

astrocortex · Aug 15, 2016

kuksul08 said:
You seem to also have an interest in saying I made false claims about light output, for some reason. Therefore, I hereby challenge you to a "light-off", where we put our LEDs head to head in a battle of how many deer we can blind.

As to the original OP question - please be very cautious with what lights you put on your bike. You don't want something too bright that will blind oncoming drivers. I couldn't tell you how many guys on big GS's I've seen riding the other way with full blinders on at night, leaving me seeing spots and unable to see the road for a moment. Make sure you can at least switch them off or dim them when in the presence of oncoming traffic.

Yeah man, hence why that $115 switched set was in my sights. Also why I want to mount them really low like fog lights, so people can see me coming but it's not actually putting light in their eyes. I just need a broader light that covers my lane and extends another 30-50ft further forward than the stock headlight. My aging eyes are scary at night thes days. So scary I'm afraid to ride once the sun is down. Two rides in a row I came home and told my wife I wasn't doing that again. In another month, dark will be the only time I can ride, so I need some lights!

RSL · Aug 15, 2016

astrocortex said:
RSL do you have a contact there that I can email or call that'll know what they made for yours? Would very much like to get my hands on this. I'm sitting here at 8:15 with my first opportunity to ride and I can't because I can't see at night with this bike.

Wish I was more confident in my wiring skills... I'd go install the running lights, but I'm afraid I'm gonna set off my rev limiter or something lol

The Darla are fine for urban night riding, but I wouldn't care to rip across mountain backroads with just them. For serious night riding having the larger Erica lights will offer the broad beam necessary to be confident cornering in complete dark.

As for whether Glen has any mounts made, I sent him an email today.

Wiring is oh so easy. I only removed my seat for the wiring. I removed two front fender bolts for adding the mount, using slightly longer replacement bolts. Available at any Home Depot or Lowes metric bolt section.

astrocortex · Aug 15, 2016

RSL said:
The Darla are fine for urban night riding, but I wouldn't care to rip across mountain backroads with just them. For serious night riding having the larger Erica lights will offer the broad beam necessary to be confident cornering in complete dark.

As for whether Glen has any mounts made, I sent him an email today.

Wiring is oh so easy. I only removed my seat for the wiring. I removed two front fender bolts for adding the mount, using slightly longer replacement bolts. Available at any Home Depot or Lowes metric bolt section.

Thanks! Please let me know if they have some. I'll buy them immediately.

Maybe you should come install my new rage running lights if it's so easy �� I feel like whenever I touch electricals on a car or bike I almost always screw something up. Funny thing is I'm trained in that stuff from the military. Apparently I didn't retain any of that knowledge ��

RSL · Aug 15, 2016

Lighting is a highly personal thing.

I'm now 60, so having the right lighting color, light pattern and lumen output is very important for riding at speed at night. One ride over Sierra Mountain Ebbetts Pass at night convinced me that the Darla LEDs alone are insufficient for that kind of road.

Having spent decades of adding all sorts of lighting on motorcycles, I have found that 5,500k to 6,500k is my favorite daylight color for seeing well. Below 5,500k is too yellow and above 6,500k is too blue. This is with LED. With the color shift of HID 4,300k can be very good too.

Depending what kind of night riding one is engaged in, what light pattern is most helpful, and how fast one is riding should determine which lights are added.

Call Clearwater to discuss. A physicist who does work for Clearwater uses two different lights for his bike, one with a broader pattern and one with a narrow focused spot. (Yes, there is real science in their designs. That physicist, who comes on some of my rides, is a world renowned in industrial use of lasers. If you fly internationally, you benefit from his use of lasers.)

Clearwater Company
11305 Sunrise Gold Circle, Suite D
Rancho Cordova, CA 95742
916-852-7029

Ebbetts Pass, California Fall 2015

RSL · Aug 15, 2016

For my purpose of wanting to compel motorists to notice me, the Darla LED lights are perfect. For urban night riding they fill in dark areas, and the LED headlight bulb makes far more light too.

The beam pattern is a wider spot. Thus, once I'm off axis the light just can't bother anyone.

appliance821 · Aug 15, 2016

The one problem I see with most Aux lights is evident in the photos on this thread - they put out a conical light that will affect oncoming drivers and aren't DOT approved.

Cyclops driving lights solve this with DOT type snap on lenses that limit the vertical spread. link: Long Range Optimus LED Auxiliary light Round

The problem here is that they're 3.5" diameter lights which would look pretty huge on our bikes. I am considering using one of the cyclops long range lights with a DOT cover - for more light - particularly on the curbside for animals.

I did just order the H4 LED headlight and will fit it soon. Unlike most on the market it has LED shields for sharp lowbeam cutoff. The temp is 5500k - higher than I'd like but OK. I have high hopes for at least tolerable night riding.

@RSL: thanks for the mount design and info - that's really a good solution.

RSL · Aug 15, 2016

Don't worry so much about LED kelvin values as compared to HID they seem to be pretty much in the daylight range. HIDs were all over the spectrum making precise selection critical.

As for being a problem for oncoming traffic, it just isn't an issue for me during the day. If I was riding at night, which I used to do, then a slight downward angle adjustment resolves the issue.

kuksul08 · Aug 15, 2016

Kelvin is Kelvin, it doesn't matter what the light source is. LED is actually more critical due to the narrow band spectrum output. A lot of people like 5500-6000K because it looks cool. Personally I find that quite annoying. In fact for night riding, the best is around 3500-4000K. It's very easy on the eyes, gives a lot of depth, and minimizes glare. Look into "selective yellow" that used to be a trend in Europe. There is a lot of science backing it up. I experimented with a 2700K LED headlight that I ended up selling to a friend. It was like you were holding a million candles in front of you while riding - just this insane orange/yellow glow. Pretty hideous actually. But damn did it function well.

A good compromise is the 4000-5000K range. It looks decent, gives accurate color, minimal glare.

As far as I know, there is no DOT legal aux light in existence. Even if you have a good beam pattern, there are limitations as to how many lumens you can have on any forward axis.

appliance821 · Aug 15, 2016

kuksul08 said:
Kelvin is Kelvin, it doesn't matter what the light source is. LED is actually more critical due to the narrow band spectrum output. A lot of people like 5500-6000K because it looks cool. Personally I find that quite annoying. In fact for night riding, the best is around 3500-4000K. It's very easy on the eyes, gives a lot of depth, and minimizes glare. Look into "selective yellow" that used to be a trend in Europe. There is a lot of science backing it up. I experimented with a 2700K LED headlight that I ended up selling to a friend. It was like you were holding a million candles in front of you while riding - just this insane orange/yellow glow. Pretty hideous actually. But damn did it function well.

A good compromise is the 4000-5000K range. It looks decent, gives accurate color, minimal glare.

As far as I know, there is no DOT legal aux light in existence. Even if you have a good beam pattern, there are limitations as to how many lumens you can have on any forward axis.

I'm with you on color temp, but with a good cutoff glare shouldn't be an issue.

By DOT, I'm referring to the beam pattern and avoiding blinding oncoming drivers. The cyclops clip on filters accomplish this.

RSL · Aug 16, 2016

Many states limit the lumen output to 300 for auxiliary lighting. Good luck with that if you are indeed serious about meeting all DOT requirements.

One such state code:

(7) When a vehicle is upon a highway a person shall light not more than a total of four lights at any one time that are mounted on the front of a vehicle and that each projects a beam of intensity greater than 300 candlepower.

(8)(a) A light, other than a headlight, that projects a beam of light of an intensity greater than 300 candlepower shall not be operated on a vehicle:

(A) Unless the beam is so directed that no part of the high intensity portion of the beam will strike the level of the roadway on which the vehicle stands at a distance of more than 75 feet from the vehicle; or
(B) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this subsection, when use of the low beams of the vehicle headlight system is required under subsection (6) of this section.

From another state:

6. Whenever a motor vehicle with head lamps is also equipped with auxiliary lamps, a spot light, or any other types of lamps on the front that project a beam of intensity greater than 300 candle power, no more than a total of four such lamps may be lighted at one time. (CGS Â§ 14-96y)

From yet another state:

State codes list a 300-candlepower limit on headlights and is within the specs of original equipment and standard headlight replacements. Under the "Restrictions on Lighting Equipment section (13 AAC 04.145)" it explains "no more than a total of four lights on the front of a vehicle may be illuminated at any time when there is approaching traffic."

Candlepower is a rating of light output at the source, using English measurements.

300 candlepower = 300 lumen.

DOT HID 4,300k bulb output is 3,200 lumen.

Isn't it great to have such options. Some like it yellow, some daylight, some even blue. Lots of buying options out there.

I go by whether oncoming vehicles flash me. None do.

RSL · Aug 16, 2016

Here is the real world deal on adding or changing lights on a motorcycle:

1) Don't ride with lights so bright that cars flash you, day or night. Riding with bright lights on is too much for oncoming traffic, day or night.

2) Don't have more than two additional accessory lights on at the same time.

3) Accessory lighting should be below the height of the headlight.

Do those things and you won't have law enforcement issues.

I've ridden across the US so many times, Florida to Oregon, following these simple rules and have never had a single lighting issue.

If you like yellowish light, go with it. If you like daylight color, like me, there are many options. If you like fashionable blue lights, well go ahead with that too.

If anyone wants to play the game of reviewing legislation about what's DOT I can play that game too. I know what works without issue.

First and foremost is to determine what it is you are wanting to accomplish with adding or changing lights. Night rider? Urban or rural? Iron Butt? Maybe just wanting to be fashionably cool.

RSL · Aug 16, 2016

To see deer and road hazards the higher the light placement the better. That's why you see light bars on the roof of off-road vehicles. That's why some riders risk law enforcement by placing their driving lights above the headlight elevation.

To be conspicuous to vehicles during the day any placement is fine.

RSL · Aug 16, 2016

Clearwater is sending out the mount drawings to have some made. Two to 3 weeks for delivery.

Better looking and 1" narrower than mine.

appliance821 · Aug 16, 2016

RSL said:
Many states limit the lumen output to 300 for auxiliary lighting. Good luck with that if you are indeed serious about meeting all DOT requirements.

One such state code:

(7) When a vehicle is upon a highway a person shall light not more than a total of four lights at any one time that are mounted on the front of a vehicle and that each projects a beam of intensity greater than 300 candlepower.

(8)(a) A light, other than a headlight, that projects a beam of light of an intensity greater than 300 candlepower shall not be operated on a vehicle:

(A) Unless the beam is so directed that no part of the high intensity portion of the beam will strike the level of the roadway on which the vehicle stands at a distance of more than 75 feet from the vehicle; or
(B) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this subsection, when use of the low beams of the vehicle headlight system is required under subsection (6) of this section.

From another state:

6. Whenever a motor vehicle with head lamps is also equipped with auxiliary lamps, a spot light, or any other types of lamps on the front that project a beam of intensity greater than 300 candle power, no more than a total of four such lamps may be lighted at one time. (CGS Â§ 14-96y)

From yet another state:

State codes list a 300-candlepower limit on headlights and is within the specs of original equipment and standard headlight replacements. Under the "Restrictions on Lighting Equipment section (13 AAC 04.145)" it explains "no more than a total of four lights on the front of a vehicle may be illuminated at any time when there is approaching traffic."

Candlepower is a rating of light output at the source, using English measurements.

300 candlepower = 300 lumen.

DOT HID 4,300k bulb output is 3,200 lumen.

Isn't it great to have such options. Some like it yellow, some daylight, some even blue. Lots of buying options out there.

I go by whether oncoming vehicles flash me. None do.

I mentioned DOT and I think there has been a misunderstanding. My concern is if it's raining or foggy, I don't want the light coming back at me, as would happen with a conical beam. The DOT "STYLE" front glass pattern I'm referring to helps minimize this.

RSL · Aug 17, 2016

You are right, the beam pattern becomes critical when there is something reflective in the air, rain, fog or snow. Much worse when riding at night. This is where having an amber lens cover comes in so helpful too.

appliance821 said:
My concern is if it's raining or foggy, I don't want the light coming back at me, as would happen with a conical beam. The DOT "STYLE" front glass pattern I'm referring to helps minimize this.

RSL · Aug 17, 2016

There is no one light that does everything well, nor even effectively. From cornering where we need lighting that bends to illuminate the road around the bend to lighting hundreds of feet ahead to see deer on the roadside, night riding is challenging. That's why I've tried so many different lights over the decades.

For my specific purpose of being conspicuous to oncoming traffic, my setup is perfect. A setup that I find is attractive on the Hyperstrada.

It is great that we all have so many purchase options. What works well for me may, or may not, work well for you. There is no one answer.

RSL · Aug 17, 2016

When it comes to experimenting with added lighting, I've been there and done that. These are from one experiment on one bike:

RSL · Aug 17, 2016

One more comparison on another guys bike. He has Darla LEDs down low and Erica LEDs on the mirror mounts. The K1600 has two 55w halogen high beams and one 35w HID headlamp.

This shows that with LEDs that you can dim there is little risk of blinding oncoming traffic, even at night, if adjusted right.

monocog007 · Aug 17, 2016

I thought I'd chime in here with some other cheaper options. As much as I'd love to have a set of clearwater lights, I just don't have that kind of money to spend on them.

So I did what most cheap and handy people do, and buy stuff off ebay.

The most expensive part was the OEM switch from Ducati.

The lights themselves are pretty awesome. They shine out farther than the headlight, and still fill in the ditches too. I wired them with a relay off of the parking lights, and with a stock Multistrada fog light switch. The switch had to be HEAVILY modified to work, so don't buy one and expect it to bolt on, but it's possible.

I took a nod from RSL and mounted them up near the fairing, after previously having them mounted off the radiator bolts. A small tip-over later determined that to be a terrible spot.

RSL · Aug 17, 2016

Flip the lights up and get a shorter mount bolt and you will have a great affordable option.

Fork mounted driving lights?

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