Reluctant starts

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Braaapster

Braaapster

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 30, 2024
Messages
111
Location
Canada
The starter motor seems mildly anemic but the bike has been starting quite reliably after a few cycles.

The bike is normally parked underground, except at work. With warmer weather now, I’ve had two instances where it seemed like the bike was not going to start when leaving work at the end of the day.

I’ve also been surprised to find the tank being mildly pressurized when refueling at the gas pump. Starting to wonder whether the hot & cold weather starts are being aggravated by tank pressure/vacuum being caused the apparent lack of direct vent line on the tank.

I wonder if the vent line is the plugged hose, hanging under the rear side of the engine case, and whether the plug is some Euro 5 BS that is intended to force venting through a restrictive evap canister.

Thoughts?
 
My surprise is based on my ‘16 KTM 690 Enduro: it had an evap can (which I removed with a sensor bypass) but it also had a direct tank vent hose, near the filler hole.
 
Braaapster said:
The starter motor seems mildly anemic but the bike has been starting quite reliably after a few cycles.

The bike is normally parked underground, except at work. With warmer weather now, I’ve had two instances where it seemed like the bike was not going to start when leaving work at the end of the day.

I’ve also been surprised to find the tank being mildly pressurized when refueling at the gas pump. Starting to wonder whether the hot & cold weather starts are being aggravated by tank pressure/vacuum being caused the apparent lack of direct vent line on the tank.

I wonder if the vent line is the plugged hose, hanging under the rear side of the engine case, and whether the plug is some Euro 5 BS that is intended to force venting through a restrictive evap canister.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Hello: I have had the same issue as you. Usually starts normally every time, when hot or cold. It’s when it’s sat all day in the heat (shade or open) like after leaving work. It acts like the battery is dead for the first attempt at starting ( check battery voltage = 13.3V). Then next try it turns over normally however it won’t start. It eventually does start after about 6 tries and acts like a flooded carbureted bike until it clears itself. It has happened about 5 times in the last 3 weeks and 1500 km. Last time it threw an engine fault. I will get the fault code read in the next couple days and report back.
 
Totally seems like it’s flooded.

I’m away from the bike for the next three weeks, but next chance I’m gonna open the gas cap (to “burp” the tank) before I turn on the ignition and fuel pump.

I’m wondering if the injector dribbles a lot during the power up / boot sequence.
 
Might even start burping it after each ride, just to see if that makes a difference.
 
Thanks for your reply. For me after the first time it happened I opened the gas cap snd there wasn’t any apparent pressure buildup, but maybe I didn’t notice it. Good to know I am not the only one experiencing this!
 
I been burping the tank before every ride. Lots o' venting and fumes but no problems with starting anymore.

If this is the fix then I'm thinking Ducati can probably remedy with a minor firmware update; I suspect they may be cycling the injector on boot.
 
Only been out for 3 rides on mine and last ride bike was difficult to start after it had been in garage overnight then OK all day and nearly didn't start after last petrol stop of the day, had to leave it a couple of minutes and tried again.
Be interesting to see what dealer says as it's in for first service on Thursday
 
You've only put three rides on the bike and it's going in for the 600 mile service? Lol, my ass aches just imagining anything over 100 km.

You get my vote for honoris causa membership in:

1727810797134.png
 
I was out for 8 hours on sunday to get the miles on ready for it's first service. Didn't think it was that uncomfortable although it's certainly not a long distance tourer.
 
Did you ever find the solution for your issue?

Went to leave for work this morning and the bike wouldn't start. It cranks over like normal, tried burping the tank, but no luck.
 
Gil_, My reluctant starts were gone once I started burping the tank on hot days. Changing to the sprint filter and open airbox lid might have helped, or maybe it just needed 2500 miles to loosen up a bit. Now that cold (below freezing) weather is here, the starter motor can seem a little sluggish, but it's still way better than when it was acting up. An OBD2 scan tool with Euro5 adapter cable might tell you whether you have any sensor issues; it's probably cheaper to buy the tool and DIY than pay the dealer to check it. I can record readings on my bike if the context would help you.
 
I took the bike into the dealership, I tried a new battery before taking it in since the dealership is 40 miles from my house.

Bike still would not start, so its in their hands now.
 
Update: Got the bike back. Dealer said there was stored low voltage code and after clearing that code, the bike was able to start. Sounded strange to me, but got the bike back and sure enough, runs like normal.
 
The issue is happening much less frequent for me. The last time it happened, it was cold out, so that rules out high ambient temperatures as a possible cause.

I read an interesting article on the development of the 698 on CylceWorld. Kevin Cameron ( technical editor) has enough respect to get a Zoom conference with the main engineers who developed it. Main engineer stated they had some issues with the starting system dealing with the piston occasional kick back. They simply state they needed to add a clutch. It's a great article:

Inside the Ducati Superquadro Mono Engine



Could it be possible that our issue is an occasional kick back of the piston happening, and then the ecu has trouble restarting it? The only reason I think this is when it did happen to me, initially the engine behaved like there wasn't enough juice in the battery to turn it over. Then it turned over happily but took forever to start
And then like Brappster surmises, when the engine loosens up a bit ,it doesn't happen as much?

Looking forward to you opinions on my guess....thanks
 
Gil_ said:
Update: Got the bike back. Dealer said there was stored low voltage code and after clearing that code, the bike was able to start. Sounded strange to me, but got the bike back and sure enough, runs like normal.
Click to expand...
Sounds like a scan tool with Euro5 adapter cable could have taken care of it. Although my bike hasn’t thrown any codes yet, but an older version of this cheapo tool has happily read sensor data from the bus on my 698:

https://www.amazon.ca/THINKCAR-ThinkOBD-Functions-Automotive-Diagnostic/dp/B0CWH5GY6Ghttps://www.amazon.ca/dp/B09GX4PVQ1
 
As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases.
I see some greyed out note in my post stating "As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases.”, and I assume that is the operator of this forum.
 
Bike has around 7100 miles now, reluctant starts came back even with a new battery. I started to plug the bike in to the tender overnight to ensure it would be fully charged in the morning. I daily my motorcycle so never had to really worry about plugging the bike in for one night of sitting in the garage. After a few days of this, the bike no longer starts again. I did notice that after attempting to start the bike twice, a bright orange liquid would start to drip from the bike, it has an oil like consistency. It seems to be coming from the engine, behind the starter motor. I will be taking the bike in ASAP and keep everyone posted.
 

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