The Suspension Thread!!! BOOING

[gatdammit]

Any idea what your spring rate is in the front?

I honestly don't. Wasn't aware Andreani had optional spring rates when I purchased. I weigh about 185 in full gear and typically travel with an extra 25lbs in luggage.

 

[1-3-2-4]

Most of the time - for most people - ride quality is a direct result of incorrect spring rates. So step one would be to figure out what you have in there before monkeying around with settings. Assuming they are correct, you need to get the right oil level (or air gap as other say). That controls the effective wheel rate by introducing progressiveness. If that is correct for your weight and usage, then you should look into valving.

Given your weight, You'd probably be well suited with a set of 0.78 kg/mm or 0.825 kg/mm...using the springs that Andreani stocks. Of course, you can use whatever spring you want as long as it meets the dimensional requirements.

 

[gatdammit]

Most of the time - for most people - ride quality is a direct result of incorrect spring rates. So step one would be to figure out what you have in there before monkeying around with settings. Assuming they are correct, you need to get the right oil level (or air gap as other say). That controls the effective wheel rate by introducing progressiveness. If that is correct for your weight and usage, then you should look into valving.

Given your weight, You'd probably be well suited with a set of 0.78 kg/mm or 0.825 kg/mm...using the springs that Andreani stocks. Of course, you can use whatever spring you want as long as it meets the dimensional requirements.

I had the Andreani's done at a Duc dealer in Naples, Italy. The manager definitely asked my weight. I read a lot of threads on Andreani inserts but never saw a discussion of spring rates. I think they're adequate but I've monkey'd with the adjusters too much. Despite reading scads of articles and watching hours of YT videos on suspension setup, I'm awful at it.

 

[1-3-2-4]

What’s your current sag? Are you familiar with the process to do it correctly? That will also have an effect on ride quality.

The standard Andreani approach is to set the clickers to the midpoint as a baseline. Might be worth resetting to that point and starting fresh.

 

[uncle brad]

I had the Andreani's done at a Duc dealer in Naples, Italy. The manager definitely asked my weight. I read a lot of threads on Andreani inserts but never saw a discussion of spring rates. I think they're adequate but I've monkey'd with the adjusters too much. Despite reading scads of articles and watching hours of YT videos on suspension setup, I'm awful at it.

1-3-2-4 is on the money with his statement about spring rates. If the rate isn't correct, then you're not going to get the ride you want. Preload can fine tune once you're in the ball park with the appropriate spring, but if the spring is too soft/hard, you'll just be chasing your tail. If your sag isn't correct with the base settings, then you most likely have the wrong spring. To the best of my memory, the springs i received were marked 0.8 for the low Andreanni's carts. Their part number 105/D12E. I have a 2016 HS. I spoke with and bought from Fast Bike Industries (which now appearts to be Andreanni USA). They sent and i filled out their questionnaire which they used to spec the springs. I specifically requested a plush ride. Not sure if that had any bearing but the last thing i wanted was a tech guessing that i used the bike on the track or for Hooning around. I'm 226 lbs without gear or luggage which i rarely carry other then spare layers of clothing. The ride improved substantially even with the stock settings. I made minor adjustments looking for change but never noticed much difference. I haven't spent a great deal of time in 'experiment mode' trying different settings over the same patches of pavement. It may not be perfect but itsa helluva lot better then it was. Here is the factory info i received with the carts which may help you start over with your tuning. Hope this helps.

 

[gatdammit]

Uncle Brad, that scan is very helpful. I searched exhaustively for this manual as mine did not come with one. There's even an old discussion here - maybe even this thread - where I was asking about the factory baseline and adjustment. I did a rudimentary sag setup with a friend after installing the rear shock. I've never touched spring pre-load on either cart.

Found the post in classifieds where I bought them (confused with a set I was watching on eBay at the same time). They are D08's: 200 lbs/ 95 Kg. I'm a bit lighter than that now but close with full gear, maybe 190 ish.

For Sale - Andreani Fully ajustable suspension. Hyp 821

SOLD !! Andreani Fully ajustable suspension. Hyp 821 SELLING for hyperstrada 821 2013-2014 Andreani fully ajustable front suspension plug and play kit. brand new, I have sold the bike before installing the new suspension on. Spring are for 200 pounds / 95 kg Brand new cost: 700$ usd +...

hyperstrada.com

 

[1-3-2-4]

Way too stiff for a light long travel road bike. You and I are about the same weight, with you on the lighter side, and I’m happy with my 0.825. Touch heavy if I’m picking nits, so I’d drop yours to 0.78. You’ll be blown away at the improvement!

 

[gatdammit]

Way too stiff for a light long travel road bike. You and I are about the same weight, with you on the lighter side, and I’m happy with my 0.825. Touch heavy if I’m picking nits, so I’d drop yours to 0.78. You’ll be blown away at the improvement!

How did you determine my spring rate? I read a post that Fast Bike sprung a 175lb rider at 8.3 for this same set on an 821. Regardless, I have no means to investigate or swap for the time being. This is what I got so I'll re-baseline the settings and go from there.

 

[1-3-2-4]

Honestly, we do a lot of suspension work here. There’s a strong tendency to over spring a bike across the industry and many times people treat every suspension customer like they are going to be racing. Which, of course, isn’t true. Plus, a longer travel fork can use a lighter spring to make use of the extra travel.

As I mentioned a few posts up, I’m about 200 lbs on the bike and I’m using a 0.81 kg/mm. I am a little short of the target sag with preload all the way out, but it feels pretty darn good.

 

[gatdammit]

Honestly, we do a lot of suspension work here. There’s a strong tendency to over spring a bike across the industry and many times people treat every suspension customer like they are going to be racing. Which, of course, isn’t true. Plus, a longer travel fork can use a lighter spring to make use of the extra travel.

As I mentioned a few posts up, I’m about 200 lbs on the bike and I’m using a 0.81 kg/mm. I am a little short of the target sag with preload all the way out, but it feels pretty darn good.

Many thanks. Learning a lot. I'm good at a lot of stuff but suspension is not my wheel house. I'm gonna set them back to baseline and do a proper static sag adjustment. I ride it very hard but with a touring load. Cheers!

 

[nickwst4]

Honestly, we do a lot of suspension work here. There’s a strong tendency to over spring a bike across the industry and many times people treat every suspension customer like they are going to be racing. Which, of course, isn’t true. Plus, a longer travel fork can use a lighter spring to make use of the extra travel.

I'd agree that suspension makers are reluctant to fit light springs for light riders or people who just want more compliance. The only exception for me was the Italian firm Matris who supplied very light springs for the shock and cartridges for my Cagiva Raptor 1000, with the result that the fork seals blew over a pot-hole and the sag was so excessive that the side-stand supported the bike virtually upright. Both ends are now at maximum preload, but the ride is much improved over the OEM setup.

 

[1-3-2-4]

Many thanks. Learning a lot. I'm good at a lot of stuff but suspension is not my wheel house. I'm gonna set them back to baseline and do a proper static sag adjustment. I ride it very hard but with a touring load. Cheers!

Right on. When you check the sag, follow this procedure: Suspension and Springs . This is only repeatable way to do it.

I'd agree that suspension makers are reluctant to fit light springs for light riders or people who just want more compliance. The only exception for me was the Italian firm Matris who supplied very light springs for the shock and cartridges for my Cagiva Raptor 1000, with the result that the fork seals blew over a pot-hole and the sag was so excessive that the side-stand supported the bike virtually upright. Both ends are now at maximum preload, but the ride is much improved over the OEM setup.

There's definitely a balancing act. As you found out, too soft is just as wrong as too stiff!

 

[appliance821]

OK, I feel it's time to improve the suspension on my '13 821 HS to make it more compliant over real-world surfaces, rather than just trunk roads. Being in the UK, I've spoken to Brook Suspension, who recommend the Andreani cartridges as good value. I also asked about YSS fully-adjustable shocks, but the guy said I'd do better to avoid the Thailand-made one-size-fits-all YSS and instead go for Nitron R2, which are fully tailored for the rider and even cost slightly less than YSS at £721. Having said that, he suggested I might consider Nitron's new fork cartridges to match, which are of course fully-adjustable and have an extra high-speed damping valve for harsh hits. Sounds like a no-brainer to go for matching UK-made Nitrons, the only catch being their cartridges are about twice the price of the Andreanis at £1K!

Has anyone any comments? And should I just go Nitron cos it's only money and I love the bike and have sorted most all of the rest of its failings?

Thanks,

Nick, Norfolk UK

I went full Nitron on my HS, and they are fantastic. Now I want to put them on my other bike, which, even though it has a decent stock suspension, well - I'm spoiled. I think it is worth it - one and done, and just makes it the bike a joy. Funny thing, Sometimes when I come to rail crossing or a really rough patch of road, I brace myself like I have for 8 years, but then I just ride over it - no harshness, no drama, and wheels stuck to the ground.

IMO, It's also worth having a ducati specialist put them on, because the stock front forks are very difficult to take apart the first time. On mine, I just had to tweak the compression and rebound on the forks a little to get it where I wanted. All the rest was on the money.

 

[nickwst4]

Now come on, App821, you're just winding me up!

As mentioned before, the full Nitron kit is in hand and the best Ducati/Italian-bike specialist I've ever met is lined up to do the work on my 821 later this year. Maybe not the best time to reap the benefit, considering the current wet and mud on the road and likely ice too later, but Spring rides should be a revelation if your experience is anything to go by!

 

[uncle brad]

Honestly, we do a lot of suspension work here.

I gotta ask...where is 'here'?

 

[appliance821]

Now come on, App821, you're just winding me up!

As mentioned before, the full Nitron kit is in hand and the best Ducati/Italian-bike specialist I've ever met is lined up to do the work on my 821 later this year. Maybe not the best time to reap the benefit, considering the current wet and mud on the road and likely ice too later, but Spring rides should be a revelation if your experience is anything to go by!

Ha ha - might be right. Well - it won't be an invitation to Valhalla, but, IMO, when you're not thinking about the equipment when you're riding, it is working well.

 

[1-3-2-4]

I gotta ask...where is 'here'?

Www.stoltecmoto.com

 

[Araitim]

The default spring rate seems to be 8.3(160lb rider range) according to Belissimoto back in 2018 when I did my Andreani cartridges. That was too soft for me so they sent 9.3(260lb rider range). The 8.3 were definitely too soft for me. The 9.3 are spot on but now I'm loosing weight so I might change at some point....or sell the bike. One thing I should mention, Bellisimoto did say that Andreani spring rate identifiers aren't the same as the rest of the worlds. I don't know if that's true, just though I might share.
I also did a rear Mupo shock, the AB1 EVO and it is a fantastic shock. It also is valved and spring for my weight with a Dyno sheet to prove(I didn't know that such a document existed).

 

[1-3-2-4]

The default spring rate seems to be 8.3(160lb rider range) according to Belissimoto back in 2018 when I did my Andreani cartridges. That was too soft for me so they sent 9.3(260lb rider range). The 8.3 were definitely too soft for me. The 9.3 are spot on but now I'm loosing weight so I might change at some point....or sell the bike. One thing I should mention, Bellisimoto did say that Andreani spring rate identifiers aren't the same as the rest of the worlds. I don't know if that's true, just though I might share.
I also did a rear Mupo shock, the AB1 EVO and it is a fantastic shock. It also is valved and spring for my weight with a Dyno sheet to prove(I didn't know that such a document existed).

How much did/do you weigh in full riding gear? What was your rider sag? How much travel are you left with?

 

[Araitim]

260ish lb in full gear, for sag I believe inset it at 35ish mm. Front travel on the base bike is 175mm front and 150mm rear. The SP has more and the Strada has less. I have my suspension set on the tight side because I like the feedback. It's not so fun on rough roads though