Adventures in Hypermotard Tuning...
- Thread starter kuksul08
- Start date
-
- Tags
- adventures hypermotard tuning
Supposedly RON. With a little research I discovered the 95 Benzene we use here in Thailand in performance bikes is likely the same octane as Canada's and the US's 91 (AKI aka PON[we love our acronyms!]). Having said that, the Benzene is now labeled as such, simply Benzene with an Octane of RON95. There was 91, but it's no longer.
So the fuel was not accountable for the Monster's performance. Must be mapping. Unless there is possibly something else different between the M821 and the HS821 electronics or mechanical components.
This is all pre-Euro4. I'm not sure how the 2018 M821 or HM939 perform.
I think the intake, exhaust, and electronics will get my Hyper to where it needs to be. If then it's still not enough, you gotta crack the motor. Anybody done that? Rebuild with performance internals, boreing? Too far involved anyway, better to pick up a 1200.
Does the 939 perform better despite a minuscule horsepower advantage to the 821? The journalists were sure the Monster would follow in the Hyper's footsteps and bump up to 939, but until now, MY 2018 it still has not. Curious.
The Termi upmap is designed specifically for that pipe. It doesn't disable O2 sensors so you will still notice runability issues around town with their kit if you noticed it before. If it did anything out of the limits of the EPA/CARB it wouldn't be for sale here.
The RB still seems like the best option to me without being insanely expensive. I wish the O2's could just be disabled completely, but it's been a while and this does seem to work still. As far as I know only 1 other guy is running my map and he likes it. I'm still happy with it. I have been lazy and haven't done a follow-up data log to make sure nothing has changed.
I am a mechanical engineer and work in testing, so this was right up my alley
The only way to truly get more power is to start altering timing. You can play with air fuel mixture all day and maybe gain a couple HP if you do it right, but it's mostly about rideability and smoothness. I value smoothness and predictable power over peak power any day!I heard the 939's have lots more mid-range power while maintaining the same peak power. I bet that's nice so you don't need to rev the engine up as much. Then again, I kinda like my peaky 821
I forgot to add that I am also running +1 on my rear sprocket, and I was surprised at how much of a difference 1 tooth on the rear made. I kind of want to ride a Monster 821 to see how it compares with the same drivetrain.
I thought the Termi upmap would have some downfall. It's an entry level chip, with perhaps a small increase in performance. Also, the smartphone link makes it feel cheap and gimmicky, and bound for malfunction. Only one way to find out though.
Kuk, did you ever communicate with Dimsport about settings and tuning or did you simply take it upon yourself? I'm wondering if they had any ways of sorting the issues. You'd think they'd fully understand their own systems and maximize their product potential.
Does the RB unit stay in the bike or is it removed after programming the bikes ecu?
Do you have any idea how the RB maps (auto tune or custom) compare to the Termi remap with full exhaust?
Do you plan to make more maps? Get more playful? Or are you satisfied with the one and only map having smoothed things out and made the bike more poised?
Kuk, did you ever communicate with Dimsport about settings and tuning or did you simply take it upon yourself? I'm wondering if they had any ways of sorting the issues. You'd think they'd fully understand their own systems and maximize their product potential.
Does the RB unit stay in the bike or is it removed after programming the bikes ecu?
Do you have any idea how the RB maps (auto tune or custom) compare to the Termi remap with full exhaust?
Do you plan to make more maps? Get more playful? Or are you satisfied with the one and only map having smoothed things out and made the bike more poised?
Nope, never communicated with them directly. I worked with one of the main US distributors a bit but he didn't/couldn't go into the detail I wanted.
RB module stays on the bike, the ECU is not reprogrammed at all.
No idea how they compare.
I made a map that works, and that's that. I don't plan to change it. However, considering the insane work I put into my analysis spreadsheet I should really use it to tune other bikes lol.
Kuksul, Very good. The one and done method. Nice work getting it sorted on the first try, like Nikola Tesla would've done.
From your original posts and pictures it looks like the factory headers on your bike. Is that correct? And then which muffler are you running? I'm asking because the Termi Low, (which is at the top of the list for my choice pipe), still has an integrated cat. Do you think the catted Termi, with flapper delete, with factory lambdas, would still perform positively?
When does lambda delete come into play, if ever? Or are they basically relieved of duty when the new map is in place? I assume you have removed or at least disengaged the exhaust flapper?
I pose the same question to Devinjc. Which exhaust system are you running with Kuksul's map?
I'm going with the Giuseppe airbox as well so I'm trying to get an idea how similar our setups are and how the map will perform with different equipment. I'm leaving the telemetry out of it though and hoping I can manage without having to crunch the data, as I'm not privy to charts.
The RapidBike RACING unit allows for tuning of ignition timing, but that is beyond my capacity as well. The last thing I want to do is foul up my bike.
Furthermore, the RB EVO can be used on multiple bikes. Individual wiring harnesses as well as a bypass plug for each bike is necessary. Bypass for when the RB unit is removed, you can ride the bike in factory mode. RB told me I'd need to send it to them for recalibration every time I wanted to change bikes, but if I am using the Pro software it may be possible to do it myself. Kuksul, you've created your own map anyway with the standard software. I'm awaiting clarification from RB about swapping maps with the Pro software. Their website states you can store multiple maps, but doesn't say specifically for different bikes.
For me there was never huge ridability issues. I learned the bike and that was it. Now, im looking to unleash the potential of the bike more than fix its 'issues'. The full exhaust system is too racy, too loud and too expensive. A slip on for aesthetics and sound is enough mechanical performance gain. The real trick lies in eliminating the emissions BS. Hence, the computer trickery.
Thanks for continuing to provide very useful information toward Hyperstrada refinement.
From your original posts and pictures it looks like the factory headers on your bike. Is that correct? And then which muffler are you running? I'm asking because the Termi Low, (which is at the top of the list for my choice pipe), still has an integrated cat. Do you think the catted Termi, with flapper delete, with factory lambdas, would still perform positively?
When does lambda delete come into play, if ever? Or are they basically relieved of duty when the new map is in place? I assume you have removed or at least disengaged the exhaust flapper?
I pose the same question to Devinjc. Which exhaust system are you running with Kuksul's map?
I'm going with the Giuseppe airbox as well so I'm trying to get an idea how similar our setups are and how the map will perform with different equipment. I'm leaving the telemetry out of it though and hoping I can manage without having to crunch the data, as I'm not privy to charts.
The RapidBike RACING unit allows for tuning of ignition timing, but that is beyond my capacity as well. The last thing I want to do is foul up my bike.
Furthermore, the RB EVO can be used on multiple bikes. Individual wiring harnesses as well as a bypass plug for each bike is necessary. Bypass for when the RB unit is removed, you can ride the bike in factory mode. RB told me I'd need to send it to them for recalibration every time I wanted to change bikes, but if I am using the Pro software it may be possible to do it myself. Kuksul, you've created your own map anyway with the standard software. I'm awaiting clarification from RB about swapping maps with the Pro software. Their website states you can store multiple maps, but doesn't say specifically for different bikes.
For me there was never huge ridability issues. I learned the bike and that was it. Now, im looking to unleash the potential of the bike more than fix its 'issues'. The full exhaust system is too racy, too loud and too expensive. A slip on for aesthetics and sound is enough mechanical performance gain. The real trick lies in eliminating the emissions BS. Hence, the computer trickery.
Thanks for continuing to provide very useful information toward Hyperstrada refinement.
Hi.
Now bear in mind that I do not have any RB yet...
I am in looking to get the Evo version though. Hence the research...
Kuksul - can the throttle calibration be the reason you saw negative auto adjustment when your wb showed you should have positive? And the other way around?
Another Q is: if I understood your instructions correctly you disabled the "auto tune" function totally?
But couldn't you have changed the auto tune target instead, preserving some measure of tolerance for different conditions(fuel, temp, altitude and so on)? Or maybe all this is already maintained in ecu anyway... but it is possible to do it this way in Evo version, yes?
BR
Skickat från min iPad med Tapatalk
You can't buy the pro software, they don't want people being able to tweak too much themselves.
They also don't offer a RB Racing module for the hyper, only the EVO.
The throttle calibration was only off by a tiny tiny bit, not enough to account for the 10% fuel differences in the maps.
Yeah I disable the auto tune because I tuned it separately using my own O2 sensor. I don't trust the auto-tune target slider because it still relies on the narrowband sensors. Keep in mind this is completely separate from the sensors/adjustments that adjust for elevation (MAP sensors), air temperature, or engine temperature. They still work correctly on their own.
There are different maps within the stock ECU. For example you have the base map which is set up at the factory for a particular elevation, fuel type, temperature, etc, and is a really good starting point. Then you have multiple correction maps that take input from the O2 sensors, MAP sensors, temp sensors, and adjust accordingly. The only thing the RB EVO does is intercept the O2 sensors.
Right, so we can only use the EVO and the standard software. Even so, I should still be able to re download your map each time I put it back on the Hyper.
How has fuel consumption been affected by your map?
Which muffler are you running, Kuksul?
How has fuel consumption been affected by your map?
Which muffler are you running, Kuksul?
Yeah, you can change the map that's true. As long as both bikes have the same configuration of cylinders.
Stock muffler. Ducati performance intake cover (that came with the termi high exhaust).
I don't ride it consistently enough to note any difference in fuel consumption, so I can't really comment here. Based on my riding style and mapping changes, I bet my mileage went down by 5-10%.
I'm still running kuksul08's map. '15 Strada with stock muffler and performance intake plus mwr power up kit. It's not perfect but close enough.
I'm definitely getting worse gas mileage, but almost all of my riding since I loaded the map has been rather aggressive... although that may be permanent problem I have now.
I'm definitely getting worse gas mileage, but almost all of my riding since I loaded the map has been rather aggressive... although that may be permanent problem I have now.
Joined Mar 2013
3K Posts | 161+
Naples, IT
I got a bad flat spot between 3500-5500 rpm. It will just keep running out of steam if I loiter in that band and I have to goose it to wake it up. After normal 25-30 min run, it almost stalls at idle. It bounces in a slow arc right around 1000 rpm and has stalled once.
Gonna load your map this weekend. Hoping my dying starter jostled the RB when it had some really bad short cycles trying to turn over. Rode the button too long once and got a light show after it failed to fire and even the "errors" warning. Reset my gear indicator so I know it blasted bad trons through the system.
Gonna load your map this weekend. Hoping my dying starter jostled the RB when it had some really bad short cycles trying to turn over. Rode the button too long once and got a light show after it failed to fire and even the "errors" warning. Reset my gear indicator so I know it blasted bad trons through the system.
Joined Sep 2017
595 Posts | 121+
Lansing Mi
I may have found my increasing sputtering and popping. When going through the tuning flow through, under "RB Features" there is a "pump correction" tab. That was disabled. Is that supposed to be disabled or enabled? I only took it for a quick spin around the block but at first feel the sputtering and popping has gone away. Kuksul08, is this supposed to be enabled? I also did the TPS calibration to the voltage limits that you recommend. I did that with the bike running then hit "calibrate throttle" and input the numbers manually. Then clicked apply then turned off "calibrate throttle". Then disconnected. Does that sound about right or did I miss a step in the TPS calibration?
I don't recall messing with the pump correction at all.
The calibrate throttle routine is intended to be run on a dyno so the throttle plates can open all the way. You can simply enter the voltage values without doing the calibration. The more critical number is the lower limit because that will affect how the bike runs just off idle and with the throttle cracked. Warm up the engine and plug in the RB and see where it sits. That's your Min value. The max value is less critical.
Can you go into more detail about the sputtering? Popping noises aside, you should focus on whether the bike is able to maintain speed at say 20-30mph. Did you change the first column to 2%?
Joined Sep 2017
595 Posts | 121+
Lansing Mi
It will start sputtering and backfiring about 1/4 throttle. It will pop and back fire. I took it all back apart to look things over and check the valve gap and they were all good. I also added the aprilia coil packs to try and resolve the issue
But it is still there. It seems worse since checking valve gaps so my son and I pulled it all back apart and went through every connector and firing thinking there was a loose wire or cacuum leak. I dont see any leaks of wires. Ut we moved wires around anyways. I unplugged the ecu and rapidbike while I had the tank out. We focused on the fuel line so as not to pinch it. I started thinkin I need to do a master reset on thebrapidbikento see if that helps but found this feature turned off and thought I missed something. I also did new plugs when I did coil packs. I was thinking it could need the TPS reset so I called ducati Detroit and they said to bring it up and I'll do it while I wait. I also read that the ambient temp sensor might be an issue related to the popping and sputtering. It was hot today and the bike was inside but it read around the 80° mark. Im grasping at straws here. I started wondering if their was air in the fuel line if that would cause my issue and since the bike doesnt have a fuel loop was seriously considering manualing priming the line by filling the line at an angle upward to eliminate any potential air. The popping happens when holding the throttle steady at first but gets progressively worse as I ride. To the point where the bike will pop bang and not accelerate for a large delay then take off like a bat out of hell then pop n backfire till I let off. The butterfly has been removed from the exhaust servo for a while but after the process of installing the carbon belt covers and coils I noticed the servo sounded more labored so when my son and I had it apart we moved the cable. Lubed the cable and reattached it to the servo. The servo now sounds normal. Any ideas? I cant najera it 3 miles up the road without it becoming unbearable. So long to my after work decompression rides.
But it is still there. It seems worse since checking valve gaps so my son and I pulled it all back apart and went through every connector and firing thinking there was a loose wire or cacuum leak. I dont see any leaks of wires. Ut we moved wires around anyways. I unplugged the ecu and rapidbike while I had the tank out. We focused on the fuel line so as not to pinch it. I started thinkin I need to do a master reset on thebrapidbikento see if that helps but found this feature turned off and thought I missed something. I also did new plugs when I did coil packs. I was thinking it could need the TPS reset so I called ducati Detroit and they said to bring it up and I'll do it while I wait. I also read that the ambient temp sensor might be an issue related to the popping and sputtering. It was hot today and the bike was inside but it read around the 80° mark. Im grasping at straws here. I started wondering if their was air in the fuel line if that would cause my issue and since the bike doesnt have a fuel loop was seriously considering manualing priming the line by filling the line at an angle upward to eliminate any potential air. The popping happens when holding the throttle steady at first but gets progressively worse as I ride. To the point where the bike will pop bang and not accelerate for a large delay then take off like a bat out of hell then pop n backfire till I let off. The butterfly has been removed from the exhaust servo for a while but after the process of installing the carbon belt covers and coils I noticed the servo sounded more labored so when my son and I had it apart we moved the cable. Lubed the cable and reattached it to the servo. The servo now sounds normal. Any ideas? I cant najera it 3 miles up the road without it becoming unbearable. So long to my after work decompression rides.
Wow, well that definitely doesn't sound right. If you ride it hard, does it run fine?
No error lights?
If it runs well when riding hard, it's probably not a fuel delivery issue, otherwise that would be starving it when it needs the most fuel. Try setting your fuel map to 0 across the board so the RB is not doing anything. You can also try unplugging your O2 sensors - this will make the bike go into open loop mode after a few minutes. You will get an error light on the dash, but it will eliminate any O2 sensor variable.
Also check for obvious vacuum leaks, disconnected hoses, etc.
No error lights?
If it runs well when riding hard, it's probably not a fuel delivery issue, otherwise that would be starving it when it needs the most fuel. Try setting your fuel map to 0 across the board so the RB is not doing anything. You can also try unplugging your O2 sensors - this will make the bike go into open loop mode after a few minutes. You will get an error light on the dash, but it will eliminate any O2 sensor variable.
Also check for obvious vacuum leaks, disconnected hoses, etc.
Joined Mar 2013
3K Posts | 161+
Naples, IT
I seem to have a less extreme version of your problem. It stutters pretty bad - not awful - between 2500 and 5500 rpm. After warm, rpm's drop below 1000 when I let off throttle and it almost stalls, then settles in a slow bouncing idle below normal level. I can tell I'm not getting all of the motor at full whack but, I have so many other parts in need of replacement (chain, clutch, tires, etc.) that this could be an amalgamation of warn parts. I'm also pretty close to valve adjustment interval.
My butt dyno also tells me it's just running a little rough when pushing it hard. Just not as smooth when healthy. I did plugs and air filter about 6K miles ago. I'm going to do a top to bottom when I tear her apart for starter, clutch mod, chain, sprockets job soon.
Again, this was a progressive issue for me after moving to Europe. I'm not ruling out fouled fuel filter. I always request "Super" but really don't know what the Italian attendant is pumping into my gal as the full service pumps are pretty camouflaged since the attendant is the only guy that has to decipher them.
Worst case, it gets investigated when I drop her for 18K desmo service soon. I did notice my shop recommends this at 15K, but I could have been interpreting the type of service incorrectly.
My butt dyno also tells me it's just running a little rough when pushing it hard. Just not as smooth when healthy. I did plugs and air filter about 6K miles ago. I'm going to do a top to bottom when I tear her apart for starter, clutch mod, chain, sprockets job soon.
Again, this was a progressive issue for me after moving to Europe. I'm not ruling out fouled fuel filter. I always request "Super" but really don't know what the Italian attendant is pumping into my gal as the full service pumps are pretty camouflaged since the attendant is the only guy that has to decipher them.
Worst case, it gets investigated when I drop her for 18K desmo service soon. I did notice my shop recommends this at 15K, but I could have been interpreting the type of service incorrectly.
Joined Sep 2017
595 Posts | 121+
Lansing Mi
If ridden hard it will jump and backfire harder then even out for a second then back to sputtering. What are your thoughts ik gra about the ambient air temp sensor. I am trying to take note as to weather or not it is worse in the morning when it is colder on my way to work or when it is warmer on my way home but my ride is only 5 miles. I wait for the bike to start reading an engine temp before I ride it. I am at 14k miles so I am near the service interval but just checked the valve clearance and was informed that they would have been left alone as they were still in tolerances. I checked the belt tension using the tuner hz method and they were all in tolerances. I was looking to do a master reset to the rapidbike to see if that is causing issues but I'm not seeing how to do that or if it's even possible. I plan to check for vacuum leaks next if this doesn't work. What are your thoughts on having the TPS reset. That seems to be a common "go to" remedy for issues. I am unsure if the bike has even received any firmware updates so ducati will look at that too of I have them reset the TPS. I also asked about re synching the throttle bodies and they said that wasnt a thing on this bike due to it not having manual linkages due to ride by wire but alot of the other "go to" remedies suggest to have them re synched(I wasnt speaking to a mechanic at ducati Detroit when he told me that, it seemed like he was just relaying messages). Everything was good till I did the belt covers which makes me think I missed something. Before when I originally did the mapping I had a similar issue but it seemed to have gone away. I rode the bike for a good 200 Mike's after doing the coil swap and plugs and it was fine then as well. It seemed to really go haywire after a simple(far more involved that I would have ever expected) belt cover swap. I did break a stud off in the head when pulling the front cylinder while pulling the header off but with a bit of elbow grease and some vise grips in was able to remove it and replace with a new. There is also no error lights on the dash. What are your thoughts on air being in the fuel line and going back In to 'bleed' the line as I install the tank?
Joined Sep 2017
595 Posts | 121+
Lansing Mi
The ride intowork, like yesterday, it ran really strong only today it didnt start falling on its face. Yesterday when I was almost to work it was stumbling and popping a bit by the time I made it in. Now, ambient temp was actually 62-65° but the bike was reading 69-70°. My ambient temp read out has never read factual. Riding in the winter when its 30° out the display would always stay around 50°. Could this be the cause of all my issues?
Similar threads
