"Error" and all dash lights flashing, Fan Turns on, No Start...

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I would really like to get my hands on a damaged dash unit to see if I can disassemble it and see what component is failing (if possible to see visually). As well as a damaged coil. What is causing the failure???

Can we actually do anything preventively or....?
 
If only we didn't have such a massive pond separating us!! I would happily bring mine over to you, in fact nay, I would LOVE to work through this thing with you Kuksul. We're both technical men, and there must be a preventative measure we would employ here...

A workshop, a bike, some spares and time, a couple of good minds to bounce off each other - sometimes I think if only we had closer proximity, we could figure out how to fix these things without needing to bow before our Ducati dealership masters....

Unfortunately, my 'guy' (as in shop owner) here is not the most forthcoming man...
 
I have been playing around with the schematic tonight and trying to figure out how the coil and dash are related.

lMkCpcz.jpg


Interestingly enough, the dash unit is largely responsible for controlling the exhaust valve. There are 5 of the 16 pins dedicated to powering it, and knowing where it is at all times. Then, 3 pins are for turn signals and brake lights. 1 for the fan, 1 for the key sensor, 1 for the fuel level sensor (which interestingly is a variable - I wonder if we could get a fuel level gauge from it rather than just on/off). I think we can rule all of these out as factors.

This leaves us basically with power, ground, and the CAN communication pair from the ECU, which is basically a serial communication.

Then we have the coil, which has 3 wires.

mMxw7Vu.jpg


We have the power, the energy behind the coil that allows it to make a spark, the trigger signal from the ECU to make it spark, and the signal ground. The spark is grounded through the engine.


So.... important question. Has anyone had this exact problem, and been successful in replacing ONLY the dash unit and coils (not the ECU)? If so, we can at least narrow it down.


As for preventive measures... my only thought is to install something in-line with the coil that will prevent voltages higher than ~40V from backfeeding into the rest of the bike. Maybe it would make the bike stop working, but it would protect the dash and ecu...?
 
Also interestingly, there is a new dash part number as of 4/2013

My bike is a 2014 and yet it has the old part number. For those of you who had a new dash installed - is it the new or old part number? I wonder what BRA-THA means.

QCQD2ao.jpg
 
Question- would a proactive replacement of the coils prevent this from occurring?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
If you look at the part number, the coil is the same one since 2011 or something, before the strada was even around. That leads me to believe it's either a bad batch of cookies or a bad component somewhere else. No way to definitively tell. Plus a coil is $200.


edit: Actually - I can't even find the ignition coil in the fiche for the 2013 model. I was looking in the 2014 model year. So it's possible it's different, then they switched back to the old style?

edit again: Comparing parts fiches, there are 3 dash part numbers out there:
40610951E from Jan 20, 2013 (2013 model year only)
40610953E from Sept 1, 2013 (2014 model year only)
40610951F from Sept 4, 2013 (2014 model year onward)

Can anyone with a failed dash confirm the part number on the back of it?
 
Last edited:
Ducati did fix my bike out of warenty

So feedback from my experience.
My bike had the flashing lights, tow back to the garage experience three times in its almost 20k miles life so far.
The last time was six months outside of warranty. I was worried that it would cost me and I wanted a real fix. So I did call Ducati, there number in the US and I guess for the other parts of the world can be found on their site by following links for contact them. But I filled in the form, which required my stating the dealers name, and they called me back the next day to validate my report and talk to me. I was amazed they called and that the person was technical and seemed to care. Net was that I shared my concerns that the original repair was not done correctly because my dealer took coils off a stock bike not new ones, so I reasoned that I got another set of bad coils. Hence the problem coming back. I also shared with Ducati EMC pictures from a good oscilloscope that showed massive spikes occurring randomly which injected serious spikes into almost all of the wiring loom. My theory is that the bad coils spike into the loom and this causes significant noise into the bikes electronics. I was measuring this because it was so bad it would reset my dash camera particularly on dry days. I also showed them images captured from my 1199 which did not have anything like the huge spikes I saw on the hyper.
As a result of this they worked with the dealer and local rep to not only change the faulty dash, but also the coils. All at no cost to me.
As a final follow up, with the new coils the spikes are about a hundred times less than before the change, so I feel something is behind the bad coils theory. The noise is still more than the 1199 but my relative measurements are a bit crude so accuracy is not that good. In my mind there is an EMC issue with these bikes and the bad coils theory fits real well. Also the dash camera has never reset since the last change.
I have done about 5K since the last change, the bike seems better at starting and has performed 100%. So yes talk with Ducati they will work with you and seem to know that this set of bikes has a problem. Also I would hold out for new known good coils. For me having this happen three times puts me in the select few in the world, personalty I would have preferred to have won the lottery or something

For the technical people I used a 1000MHz scope with one channel on the ignition timing and the other a short one turn pick up coil. I then triggered on single big spikes using the storage option. I was able to see regular spikes timed to the ignition at really high intensity. particularly strong around the wires and loom. Basically tells me the bike is a dirt source of EMC but that it is random firings of the coils. You can also measure these spikes across even the low impedance battery, I did a differential measurement of the battery using both channels on difference and got similar results. The new coils reduced this by over a 100 times and the 1199 was about 300 times less than the dirty bike.
 
ukphotoguy said:
So feedback from my experience.
My bike had the flashing lights, tow back to the garage experience three times in its almost 20k miles life so far.
The last time was six months outside of warranty. I was worried that it would cost me and I wanted a real fix. So I did call Ducati, there number in the US and I guess for the other parts of the world can be found on their site by following links for contact them. But I filled in the form, which required my stating the dealers name, and they called me back the next day to validate my report and talk to me. I was amazed they called and that the person was technical and seemed to care. Net was that I shared my concerns that the original repair was not done correctly because my dealer took coils off a stock bike not new ones, so I reasoned that I got another set of bad coils. Hence the problem coming back. I also shared with Ducati EMC pictures from a good oscilloscope that showed massive spikes occurring randomly which injected serious spikes into almost all of the wiring loom. My theory is that the bad coils spike into the loom and this causes significant noise into the bikes electronics. I was measuring this because it was so bad it would reset my dash camera particularly on dry days. I also showed them images captured from my 1199 which did not have anything like the huge spikes I saw on the hyper.
As a result of this they worked with the dealer and local rep to not only change the faulty dash, but also the coils. All at no cost to me.
As a final follow up, with the new coils the spikes are about a hundred times less than before the change, so I feel something is behind the bad coils theory. The noise is still more than the 1199 but my relative measurements are a bit crude so accuracy is not that good. In my mind there is an EMC issue with these bikes and the bad coils theory fits real well. Also the dash camera has never reset since the last change.
I have done about 5K since the last change, the bike seems better at starting and has performed 100%. So yes talk with Ducati they will work with you and seem to know that this set of bikes has a problem. Also I would hold out for new known good coils. For me having this happen three times puts me in the select few in the world, personalty I would have preferred to have won the lottery or something

For the technical people I used a 1000MHz scope with one channel on the ignition timing and the other a short one turn pick up coil. I then triggered on single big spikes using the storage option. I was able to see regular spikes timed to the ignition at really high intensity. particularly strong around the wires and loom. Basically tells me the bike is a dirt source of EMC but that it is random firings of the coils. You can also measure these spikes across even the low impedance battery, I did a differential measurement of the battery using both channels on difference and got similar results. The new coils reduced this by over a 100 times and the 1199 was about 300 times less than the dirty bike.
Click to expand...


I will preface my response with: I'm a software engineer, not an EE.

I do have a fairly nice scope (tektronix TDS 360) that I bought from work. Not much of an idea how to use it yet, but I'm happy to help analyze the issue if you're willing to walk me through it a bit more in depth. For reference, my bike is at almost 15k miles and I believe the bike has never had this issue.
 
ukphotoguy said:
So feedback from my experience.
My bike had the flashing lights, tow back to the garage experience three times in its almost 20k miles life so far.
The last time was six months outside of warranty. I was worried that it would cost me and I wanted a real fix. So I did call Ducati, there number in the US and I guess for the other parts of the world can be found on their site by following links for contact them. But I filled in the form, which required my stating the dealers name, and they called me back the next day to validate my report and talk to me. I was amazed they called and that the person was technical and seemed to care. Net was that I shared my concerns that the original repair was not done correctly because my dealer took coils off a stock bike not new ones, so I reasoned that I got another set of bad coils. Hence the problem coming back. I also shared with Ducati EMC pictures from a good oscilloscope that showed massive spikes occurring randomly which injected serious spikes into almost all of the wiring loom. My theory is that the bad coils spike into the loom and this causes significant noise into the bikes electronics. I was measuring this because it was so bad it would reset my dash camera particularly on dry days. I also showed them images captured from my 1199 which did not have anything like the huge spikes I saw on the hyper.
As a result of this they worked with the dealer and local rep to not only change the faulty dash, but also the coils. All at no cost to me.
As a final follow up, with the new coils the spikes are about a hundred times less than before the change, so I feel something is behind the bad coils theory. The noise is still more than the 1199 but my relative measurements are a bit crude so accuracy is not that good. In my mind there is an EMC issue with these bikes and the bad coils theory fits real well. Also the dash camera has never reset since the last change.
I have done about 5K since the last change, the bike seems better at starting and has performed 100%. So yes talk with Ducati they will work with you and seem to know that this set of bikes has a problem. Also I would hold out for new known good coils. For me having this happen three times puts me in the select few in the world, personalty I would have preferred to have won the lottery or something

For the technical people I used a 1000MHz scope with one channel on the ignition timing and the other a short one turn pick up coil. I then triggered on single big spikes using the storage option. I was able to see regular spikes timed to the ignition at really high intensity. particularly strong around the wires and loom. Basically tells me the bike is a dirt source of EMC but that it is random firings of the coils. You can also measure these spikes across even the low impedance battery, I did a differential measurement of the battery using both channels on difference and got similar results. The new coils reduced this by over a 100 times and the 1199 was about 300 times less than the dirty bike.
Click to expand...

I too have a scope and would love to compare screen captures from my bike with you guys. What kinda of voltages were you seeing on these spikes before the replacement?

Perhaps we can all do the same test and see how numbers vary. My scope is only 100MHz however I think it will still work. I can compare to my other motorcycles as well. Do you think just measuring across the battery would work? I don't have a coil for measuring EMF.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for all the input guys, dealer is collecting bike tomorrow and says he'll have a word with Ducati, they will hopefully cover cost of replacement parts but not labour (Hmmmm...)

Still, she's due her DESMO service so hopefully I can use that as an excuse to cut labour cost down.
 
FWIW here is an old scope shot I got just connecting to the battery a few months ago. Ground clip to the (-) and probe to the (+). I know it's not the best way to do it, but I could kinda see what is going on.

This is at idle in AC coupling. You can see the steady state voltage varying around +/- 0.2V which I consider pretty good. But then you can see some random transient pulses spiking to "infinity".
MbBRS6g.png


When zooming out to capture only this pulse, it looked like this. A spike to about 7V, so the total would be ~14.4V + 7V = ~21V.
REV2Mtd.png


The bike should be designed to handle dirty voltages for various types of events. The coils that fail must be exceeding this threshhold, OR the transient voltage protection components in the dash are no good.

ukphotoguy, are you an EE? Do you know if its possible to simply add something across the battery (or elsewhere?) to absorb these things and protect the whole bike?
BQbm91y.jpg
 
i have just been to my local ducati dealer to price up the coils so they could be replaced at the demo service.. they asked why i was looking to replace them so i explained the reasons here. They said they hadn't had any problems but looked on their ducati site... low and behold there is a recall just out for my 2013 hyper for a wire that goes into the system to stop the dashboard lighting unlike an xmas tree with warnings.
So hopefully this may be the cure to the problems encountered with the electrics system meltdown
 
great news, going to ring my dealer to see if my bike is affected and have the recall work carried out if required.
People who have had to pay to have their bikes fixed due to this problem should be reimbursed imo
 
r3monkey said:
i have just been to my local ducati dealer to price up the coils so they could be replaced at the demo service.. they asked why i was looking to replace them so i explained the reasons here. They said they hadn't had any problems but looked on their ducati site... low and behold there is a recall just out for my 2013 hyper for a wire that goes into the system to stop the dashboard lighting unlike an xmas tree with warnings.
So hopefully this may be the cure to the problems encountered with the electrics system meltdown
Click to expand...

Wonderful news. I'll check my VIN # when I get home today and see if it's included. I know my VIN ends in 000655, so it's probably one of the earlier affected bikes.
 
Ducati

Just checked mine on the Ducati website and its showing No active recall campaigns for this/my bike
 
Last edited:
r3monkey said:
i have just been to my local ducati dealer to price up the coils so they could be replaced at the demo service.. they asked why i was looking to replace them so i explained the reasons here. They said they hadn't had any problems but looked on their ducati site... low and behold there is a recall just out for my 2013 hyper for a wire that goes into the system to stop the dashboard lighting unlike an xmas tree with warnings.
So hopefully this may be the cure to the problems encountered with the electrics system meltdown
Click to expand...

Get us more details about this recall if you can. My VIN also shows that there are no active recalls on the bike.
 
My bike is one of the earliest 2013 ones which are the ones that seem to have been having the problems according to the posts on here. Just remember though it is probably best to check with Ducati ,as the year a bike is registered for the road is not necessarily the year the bike was manufactured.
 
r3monkey said:
My bike is one of the earliest 2013 ones which are the ones that seem to have been having the problems according to the posts on here. Just remember though it is probably best to check with Ducati ,as the year a bike is registered for the road is not necessarily the year the bike was manufactured.
Click to expand...

Monkey, have you put your VIN No. into the link I posted? If you could please and post back what it says, I'd like some piece of mind that mine is defiantly not an affected bike.

Cheers
 

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