Throttle problem/Surging

astrocortex · Mar 16, 2016

monocog007 said:
Some dealers won't let you bring the bike in for diagnosis, and then bring it back when the part is in. They are asking for him to leave his bike at the dealer while the part is being shipped. My dealer asks the same thing, and it's very frustrating. My bike spent a month and a half at the dealer last summer, in the peak of riding season, because they weren't willing to let me ride it in the meantime.

right. and being spring and first come first serve with a stated bias for people that purchased a bike from them he estimated it would sit for 1-2 weeks before they even looked at it to order the part...

As it happens, the dealer I bought it from did the swap already. If this is true I dunno, but he said it won't show up in the ducati system as being done until the end of the month. He tried to explain to me how it works. There are 3-4 steps that are taken in the system before the dealer gets paid. Someone has to go through them and approve them all by hand as well.

So I'm trying sprockets since thats the next cheapest thing to do.

dragoontwo · Mar 17, 2016

astrocortex said:
It actually is VIN based. I've had mine checked at two locations from the comfort of my home.

Question: what pitch is the rear sprocket, 520?

No, it isn't. I have had the Ducati work package for checking the throttles in my hands. The part number on the assy. needs to be checked.

astrocortex · Mar 17, 2016

Well, 2 local ducati dealerships disagree with your assessment. Real life experience, aka my actual experience, trumps the internet 100% of the time.

monocog007 · Mar 17, 2016

astrocortex said:
Well, 2 local ducati dealerships disagree with your assessment. Real life experience, aka my actual experience, trumps the internet 100% of the time.

Yeah? In regards to what?

porkrind · Mar 17, 2016

astrocortex said:
Well, 2 local ducati dealerships disagree with your assessment. Real life experience, aka my actual experience, trumps the internet 100% of the time.

Well hell. My actual experience aligns with what dragoontwo posted. So now we're 2-2. Need a tiebreaker here.

ferdi · Mar 18, 2016

my ducati mechanics also looked at the part number itself because the vin is not meaningful in this case

monocog007 · Mar 22, 2016

Maybe it's the placebo effect, but I think the bike got smoother after I made a few changes during the 9000 mile service (I did all the recommended items as part of the service).

I removed the exhaust flapper cable, and removed the servo completely (200 miles, no codes), added a ducati performance intake lid with a sprint air filter.

I thought the filter might make the bike run even more lean, but so far those two changes seem to have made a difference. Does anyone know of a way to "reset" the learning period in the ECU? I want to see if I can get it to a slightly richer AFR by having it learn the new intake setup.

mentalist · Mar 22, 2016

disconnect the battery for ten minutes

monocog007 · Mar 22, 2016

mentalist said:
disconnect the battery for ten minutes

Well shoot, I already did that when tearing into it for the service! Maybe that's why it's so much smoother...

rhyrea · May 15, 2016

This may be a silly question, but have the throttle/ECU issues been resolved with the factory 939s? I have a 2016 strada that is quite jerky, both inside urban mode and out.

Basically just wondering if this is typical of the model of if something else could be afoot.

Cripes · May 15, 2016

Euro 4 regulations are a tough call, hence why Ducati made the changes for the 2016 Hyper. Lean fuelling seems the norm now for many new bikes, with the consequent jerkiness in throttle response.

Do let us know what you think of the new model, very few of us have had the chance to try one yet!

kuksul08 · May 15, 2016

rhyrea said:
This may be a silly question, but have the throttle/ECU issues been resolved with the factory 939s? I have a 2016 strada that is quite jerky, both inside urban mode and out.

Basically just wondering if this is typical of the model of if something else could be afoot.

I heard it actually got worse, based on a review over at the Ducati forum, from someone that has owned both the 821 and 939.

The reason is a combination of things. You have a very light flywheel engine so it is going to be less smooth and more fluttery than a bike with a heavier flywheel. Next the throttle has very much of an off/on behavior so if you are in an area where the throttle is just barely cracked, the fueling is going to be going off-on-off-on repeatedly. Lastly, the bike is terribly lean from the factory in the 0-14% throttle and 0-6000RPM range for emissions. This can be addressed with a fuel controller or a flash, which does make a big difference. The other things unfortunately cannot be changed.

rhyrea · May 15, 2016

kuksul08 said:
I heard it actually got worse, based on a review over at the Ducati forum, from someone that has owned both the 821 and 939.

The reason is a combination of things. You have a very light flywheel engine so it is going to be less smooth and more fluttery than a bike with a heavier flywheel. Next the throttle has very much of an off/on behavior so if you are in an area where the throttle is just barely cracked, the fueling is going to be going off-on-off-on repeatedly. Lastly, the bike is terribly lean from the factory in the 0-14% throttle and 0-6000RPM range for emissions. This can be addressed with a fuel controller or a flash, which does make a big difference. The other things unfortunately cannot be changed.

It's pretty bad. Urban is halfway decent, but cruising at around 5k rpm in touring with lower gears while holding the wrist as steady as possible, there are moments where the engine does microsurges simply because of the tiny impact feedback from irregular bumps in pavement. There's also a very clear on/off point where you can turn the throttle half a millimeter and suddenly it jerks to life.

I rode a '13 SP for about 30 minutes and don't remember it being this bad, but that's my only other experience with this model family. I have about 600 miles on it now and you learn to work around it, but it does beg the question of why you would have to.

On the plus side, going by my model it looks like they finally fixed the snatchy clutch.

kuksul08 · May 15, 2016

rhyrea said:
It's pretty bad. Urban is halfway decent, but cruising at around 5k rpm in touring with lower gears while holding the wrist as steady as possible, there are moments where the engine does microsurges simply because of the tiny impact feedback from irregular bumps in pavement. There's also a very clear on/off point where you can turn the throttle half a millimeter and suddenly it jerks to life.

I rode a '13 SP for about 30 minutes and don't remember it being this bad, but that's my only other experience with this model family. I have about 600 miles on it now and you learn to work around it, but it does beg the question of why you would have to.

On the plus side, going by my model it looks like they finally fixed the snatchy clutch.

Where in norcal are you located? You can PM me.

I was fed up with it and ended up installing a fuel module (which will definitely absolutely void your warranty no matter what anyone says) and it is so much better now. Night and day really.

robbub · May 16, 2016

I felt the same with my 939 SP. Honestly, a remap will solve it (I've been told), but just eliminating the exhaust valve got rid of probably 80% of the problem for me. Removing the valve reduced the engine braking effect, so on/off throttle transitions are much smoother now too.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

robbub · May 16, 2016

monocog007 said:
Maybe it's the placebo effect, but I think the bike got smoother after I made a few changes during the 9000 mile service (I did all the recommended items as part of the service).

I removed the exhaust flapper cable, and removed the servo completely (200 miles, no codes), added a ducati performance intake lid with a sprint air filter.

I thought the filter might make the bike run even more lean, but so far those two changes seem to have made a difference. Does anyone know of a way to "reset" the learning period in the ECU? I want to see if I can get it to a slightly richer AFR by having it learn the new intake setup.

Oh, ha. I just read this post...that is definitely the reason it's smoother now!

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

astrocortex · May 25, 2016

I just put a power commander 5 in tonight. Last month I put a Remus Hypercone on. Just rode for 30 minutes with virtually no hiccups. I've put a power commander in every bike I've ever owned. This was by far the best result of the bunch. I haven't even put the proper map in yet and it nearly eliminated everything. The idle still bounces around though. I bet that goes away if I put the silencer in.

Super happy.

I'm still not convinced we put the cover for the fuel pump back on properly though. The fuel line there is a pain in the butt. Seems like no matter what we did it was touching the shock or the exhaust shield.

Any thoughts on that?

Cerv · May 27, 2016

I got the Rexxer reflash and it really did wonders for those "low rpm, part throttle opening" situations. It now purrs smooth and the jerking on a constant throttle is completely gone.

The only thing is, the bike now feels slightly less urgent in the high rpm. But it could be just the effect of eliminating the small emission dip in the curve that made the acceleration past 6000 rpm more pronounced. I have to have more seat time to be sure.

ferdi · May 27, 2016

Cerv said:
I got the Rexxer reflash and it really did wonders for those "low rpm, part throttle opening" situations. It now purrs smooth and the jerking on a constant throttle is completely gone.

The only thing is, the bike now feels slightly less urgent in the high rpm. But it could be just the effect of eliminating the small emission dip in the curve that made the acceleration past 6000 rpm more pronounced. I have to have more seat time to be sure.

Hi,

Rexxer has different mappings for HS/HM 821.
For Termi or other exhausts, with more preignition or default ignition, with or without O2 sensors.

I use a file for standardexhaust with Lambda and bypass deactivted and a little more preignition and i am very satisfied with it.
You can ask Chrsitian or Sebastian at Rexxer Germany.
I have rexxer evo so i can map to default or other mapping by myself.

kuksul08 · May 27, 2016

ferdi said:
Hi,

Rexxer has different mappings for HS/HM 821.
For Termi or other exhausts, with more preignition or default ignition, with or without O2 sensors.

I use a file for standardexhaust with Lambda and bypass deactivted and a little more preignition and i am very satisfied with it.
You can ask Chrsitian or Sebastian at Rexxer Germany.
I have rexxer evo so i can map to default or other mapping by myself.

With the Rexxer Evo can you make your own custom map based on RPM and throttle opening or must you request maps from Rexxer?

Throttle problem/Surging

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