Check it out, I wrote a review: RapidBike EVO initial review for Hyper 821 - Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum
$550
User installable in a day.
Keep the existing modes, unaffected.
Throttle problem/Surging
- Thread starter HyperPhil
- Start date
Check it out, I wrote a review: RapidBike EVO initial review for Hyper 821 - Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum
$550
User installable in a day.
Keep the existing modes, unaffected.
Joined Dec 2014
78 Posts | 0+
Vietnam
It just seems a shame that it looks like we have to spend $550 to correct what is obviously a Ducati issue.
When you pay this sort of price for a bike you expect it to be right. Not have to spend extra hard earned cash to correct what they have mucked up.
Has anyone had any joy from revisiting their dealer and having them look at the mapping of the ECU ? Can ,or are they able to make adjustments to the fueling ? Or is the stock mapping pretty much non adjustable by the ducati dealer ?
The other issue I have is that here in Vietnam i appears that the dealer training is very limited. So don't want anyone mucking around with my mapping if they are not 100% sure of what they are doing.
I would like my bike smoother to ride, however I really don't want to pay more money for it. But it looks like I may have no choice....
When you pay this sort of price for a bike you expect it to be right. Not have to spend extra hard earned cash to correct what they have mucked up.
Has anyone had any joy from revisiting their dealer and having them look at the mapping of the ECU ? Can ,or are they able to make adjustments to the fueling ? Or is the stock mapping pretty much non adjustable by the ducati dealer ?
The other issue I have is that here in Vietnam i appears that the dealer training is very limited. So don't want anyone mucking around with my mapping if they are not 100% sure of what they are doing.
I would like my bike smoother to ride, however I really don't want to pay more money for it. But it looks like I may have no choice....
Yup, no choice. The most they can do is reset your O2 adaptations, which will make it run really nice for about 20 miles.
Joined Dec 2014
78 Posts | 0+
Vietnam
That's a bit disappointing. Guess I will have to wait for a second hand unit coming on the market then as my limited spare cash is saved for my kuksul08 V2 lights
if you do not want to spend money, you simply can disconnect o2sensors and live with yellow lamp. when you disconnect/disable o2sensors, it has no closed loop any more and completly runs via mapping in the ecu.
it is no real emergency program, it simply deactivates o2regulation.
you will recognize a real improvemnent against running with o2regulation.
tuners do nothing else but also change some bits in ecu so that yellow lamp is not thrown any more.
but, ducati dealer can not change mapping by their own without tuningsoftware like rexxer or maybe others.
Joined Mar 2013
3K Posts | 161+
Naples, IT
not true. I can make my own map, tune cylinders, adjust spark, etc. with RB Evo. And the adaptive tune feature has it's merits. Oh, and the guy who makes the Rexxer flash works at my shop. He mis-diagnosed my bike as faulty tuner module when it was just a pinched fuel line.
Joined Mar 2013
3K Posts | 161+
Naples, IT
I would read some of the longer, older posts on throttle issues. First, do you have all ECU updates and new throttle assembly? These were 2015 updates specifically for this issue.
Second, remember the bikes name has "Hyper" in it. In "Low/Urban" power mode, the throttle input is heavily dampened and will give you the soft throttle you're looking for. Anything above that sharpens the response.
Get a tune, open up intake, disable flapper valve, put on a pipe and get a tune is the extent of surging fix. After a while, you should adjust to it's sensitivity. I use a cramp buster on longer rides and in town just rest my hand on top of the set throttle position with 1 finger on the brake. This limits movement and keeps it from hunting/surging.
you are true, i know that.
you can do that with rexxer and other tuning-sw or with your hw/sw thing named RB Evo, but you must not do that.
simply disabling o2 and fully running via map only improves fueling a lot and surging is nearly or fully gone, because afr is not leaned out to lambda 1 in closed loop any more but runs with internal map, as it does in open loop by default. and depending on that it is rich or lean or whatever the map is programmed. basically internal mappings are fine and bike only gets lean with o2/lambda regulation on top.
tuning-sw simply does improve internal mappings, if possible, or for user specific wishes.
maybe a guy who does rexxer flashing in your shop diagnosed your bike wrong, but, its a mistake from him, not from rexxer.
i have rexxer tuning directly from rexxer in germany, and it works more than fine
.do'nt forget, it still uses all sensors from the bike except the o2sensors.
and, o2sensors also are not used in open loop by ecu, even not in a stock bike. o2sensors only are used to lean out afr to nearly lambda1 during closed loop.
o2sensors in bikes and cars basically are no broadband ones, which can give ecu exact volt/lambda values.
the used narrowband o2sensors only signal "too rich" or "too lean" and ecu then richens or leans out afr until its ok (lambda 1).
if the surging issue is the surging from too lean afr, it occurs in any mode, urban/travel or sport, because the problem (too lean afr) is the same. the difference in the modes is the throttle responsibility, not the afr in closed loop.
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Is there a throttle assembly thing I overlooked? The dealer said that the ECU was up to date.
To the person using SC Project exhaust, were you using the CR-T or or the oval silencer?
Oval:
PHOTOGALLERY DUCATI HYPERSTRADA EXHAUST SYSTEM
CR-T
PHOTOGALLERY DUCATI HYPERMOTARD 821 EXHAUST SYSTEM
I'm planning to put a slip on at some point this season, and if the SC is worth it I will spend the extra money. Trying to NOT blow my ear drums again though. I do have professional ear plugs though. My wife, not so much.
To the person using SC Project exhaust, were you using the CR-T or or the oval silencer?
Oval:
PHOTOGALLERY DUCATI HYPERSTRADA EXHAUST SYSTEM
CR-T
PHOTOGALLERY DUCATI HYPERMOTARD 821 EXHAUST SYSTEM
I'm planning to put a slip on at some point this season, and if the SC is worth it I will spend the extra money. Trying to NOT blow my ear drums again though. I do have professional ear plugs though. My wife, not so much.
Was trying to come up with an analogy to describe the surging part. The light switch is pretty obvious. It's a very common FI and fly by wire issue.
Surging, or my use of the word, is a lot like when a boat motor is cavitating. The prop is spinning just fine, but for some reason its not getting enough water and thus the power output is unstable. The result is a sort of uneven delivery of power.
Not sure that helps, but I tried
Surging, or my use of the word, is a lot like when a boat motor is cavitating. The prop is spinning just fine, but for some reason its not getting enough water and thus the power output is unstable. The result is a sort of uneven delivery of power.
Not sure that helps, but I tried
Astro, depending on your frame number the throttle control unit has been upgraded and will be replaced at no cost to you. The newer TCU is probably better, but personally I liked the old one just fine. I just wish they would do the same with the starter motor...
Joined Mar 2013
3K Posts | 161+
Naples, IT
you are true, i know that.
you can do that with rexxer and other tuning-sw or with your hw/sw thing named RB Evo, but you must not do that.
simply disabling o2 and fully running via map only improves fueling a lot and surging is nearly or fully gone, because afr is not leaned out to lambda 1 in closed loop any more but runs with internal map, as it does in open loop by default. and depending on that it is rich or lean or whatever the map is programmed. basically internal mappings are fine and bike only gets lean with o2/lambda regulation on top.
tuning-sw simply does improve internal mappings, if possible, or for user specific wishes.
maybe a guy who does rexxer flashing in your shop diagnosed your bike wrong, but, its a mistake from him, not from rexxer.
i have rexxer tuning directly from rexxer in germany, and it works more than fine
do'nt forget, it still uses all sensors from the bike except the o2sensors.
and, o2sensors also are not used in open loop by ecu, even not in a stock bike. o2sensors only are used to lean out afr to nearly lambda1 during closed loop.
o2sensors in bikes and cars basically are no broadband ones, which can give ecu exact volt/lambda values.
the used narrowband o2sensors only signal "too rich" or "too lean" and ecu then richens or leans out afr until its ok (lambda 1).
if the surging issue is the surging from too lean afr, it occurs in any mode, urban/travel or sport, because the problem (too lean afr) is the same. the difference in the modes is the throttle responsibility, not the afr in closed loop.
Ferdi, I know we've gone round and round about this. You know a lot more about the parameters of ECU tuning.
However, I still argue that the do they same thing, except a flash tune is only good for current configuration. I can alter my setup (pipe, intake, etc) and it will adapt. The Rexxer distributor that works at my shop said I would probably need a re-flash if I changed my setup significantly. So, my one-time cost of ownership was smarter for me as I'm not done modifying my bike yet.
Joined Dec 2014
78 Posts | 0+
Vietnam
As mentioned earlier I had the CR-T.
It is loud, no question about that.
It totally eradicated any type of surging in all modes. Bike was smooth , smooth smooth.
However the exhaust was too loud for me personally. It made long runs very tiring even with ear plugs in. And I'm afraid I'm passed the age of wanting to be as loud as I can go
Joined Dec 2014
78 Posts | 0+
Vietnam
Thanks gatdammit.
I have had throttle replaced under warranty and at that time it was checked for software updates. Apparently all up to date.
I have tried all modes and find that touring mode appears to be the most comfortable for me to use and prevent the most amount of surging.
I haven't disconnected the flapper yet but will do that next to see if it helps. I hope it will to a certain extent at least.
in that case, if you want to be able to change configuration, of course your solution is much more flexible and to prefer.
As mentioned earlier I had the CR-T.
It is loud, no question about that.
It totally eradicated any type of surging in all modes. Bike was smooth , smooth smooth.
However the exhaust was too loud for me personally. It made long runs very tiring even with ear plugs in. And I'm afraid I'm passed the age of wanting to be as loud as I can go
Yeah man. I got the custom plugs from an audiologist in town and with the GPR slip ons on my Z1000 my ears still hate me. Trying to tone it down a bit with this bike as well.
I dont care about sound so much as smoothness at this point. So I just spent another 2 hours in the twistys and I really need to do something. The light switch is making me especially crazy. Was riding 40mph behind a harley on bumpy back roads and I was getting tossed around like a doll. That speed is apparently not a cozy spot on my bike, regardless of gear. Though running it at 5700-6k it was fine, but I don't think that is sustainable, especially with the wife on back.
Just got off the phone with my local service guy and low and behold not only do I need to get the throttle replaced but also the ECU apparently hasnt been updated either.
Maybe I found the problem?
Maybe I found the problem?
Joined Mar 2013
3K Posts | 161+
Naples, IT
With RB Evo and other DIY mods, I can comfortably putt around at 30 mph in Touring/MED. Stock, this was agonizing. Gearing is what hurts most below 35 mph. Swapping the rear sprocket to a 14T (can't remember the size) is a pretty common mod for Motards and a few Hyper owners on here have done it. Going down a tooth will increase the RPMs for a current speed.
Joined Jan 2015
330 Posts | 1+
London
Corrected. I went to a 14T a couple of weeks back and it's made things a lot more fun. Higher revs at motorway speeds are a little tiring but it's a small price to pay. I highly recommend it.