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Monster 821, gets modified clutch spring!!

timg said:
Hiya, when you do install it a step by step guide/photos would be appreciated by us less mechanically competent/brave if you were able :) Cheers
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Absolutely. I have actually never replaced a clutch before. I think my riding style is pretty easy on them. So it will be a little learning experience.
 
I've done tons of plate swaps on dry clutches, but never on a wet clutch.

Kuksul08, if you were able to do the starter, and document it as well as you did, it will be no problem at all to do the clutch. Of that I'm sure.
 
kuksul08 said:
Does it look like this? I got it in the mail today. Not sure when I will get around to installing it, with many other things going on lately.

So the part number to ask for is: "527-9MAB with damper spring and seat"
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Thanks a lot Kuksul, I suspect that they will get a few calls tomorrow! I will just order the set.

I don't think you need any special tools for just swapping these bits. However, another forum post mentioned using three long 5mm bolts to get the springs compressed enough to put the OEM bolts in. He used threaded rod and nuts. I have these already, needed them to install the fuel tank cover and cap on our D390.

The main difference between this bike and the dozens I've changed clutches on in the past is the water pump cover, which must be removed after draining the coolant. A good time to switch to something like Engine Ice. Next I need to call my dealer and order some gaskets.

PS The sales guy's name is actually Chance, not Chaz. Wonder if his parents were Peter Sellers fans? :D:D:D
 
Why would you drain the coolant from the water pump to get to the clutch? They're on opposite sides of the motor.
 
Sorry, I was thinking about the last cover I wanted to replace, on the FZ-09. It looks pretty straightforward.

I called Barnett today, but Chance and Mike are both out today. Considering how nice the weather has been after all the rain, I don't blame them. I hope they are out riding! Apparently Kuksul got the first and only kit so far, as the part number shows zero stock and one shipped. I've emailed Chance with that pic, and we should know more in a couple of days.
 
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I'm reading the manual and it says you need to have this special clutch basket holding tool in order to remove the nut. I was hoping to not need any special tools.

This whole thing is confusing as the 2013/2015/2016 clutches are all different. Might just have to take it apart and see.
 
kuksul08 said:
I'm reading the manual and it says you need to have this special clutch basket holding tool in order to remove the nut. I was hoping to not need any special tools.

This whole thing is confusing as the 2013/2015/2016 clutches are all different. Might just have to take it apart and see.
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Shouldn't have to take the basket off to change out a couple plates. All you really need to take off should be the pressure plate.
 
dragoontwo said:
Shouldn't have to take the basket off to change out a couple plates. All you really need to take off should be the pressure plate.
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Welp it looks like due to our unique slipper design, the basket stays but the "clutch pack" needs to come out. But someone said they were able to simply hold the rear brake and it was no problem.
 
Comparing the parts drawings to the service manual, it looks like those parts go outboard.

I've made an appointment for my 9K service next week. The tech quoted me $285 to install the parts during the service, so I'm doing it myself.

I don't think I'll need it, but fleabay has lots of cheap basket holding tools. I've always been able to change the whole pack without it. The tricky bit will be keeping the pack aligned when part #10 is removed and installed.

As for those four 5mm bolts that hold the pressure plate on, I have a butterfly air impact driver that will spin them out in a few seconds. I'll need two longer bolts to compress the springs enough to put them back in.

One last comment: The service manual calls for removing that big center nut before removing the clutch pack. Reminds me of my D390's valve adjustment procedure, which is done with the engine on a stand! The Ducati manual assumes you are removing the entire assembly.
 

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After reviewing the service manual again it appears that the "service pins" that they call for are actually bolts that hold the assembly together against pressure from the four springs labeled #11 on the diagram. These springs help release the clutch pack, and I can't remember seeing them on any other bike. So these are the 5mm bolts or studs with nuts that are needed for the job. The thread into part #12, which is why they want you to remove the big nut. I suspect that if you just pull the pressure plate off without these "pins" the springs would fall out of place. Sounds tough to reassemble.

Unfortunately, I have not found a suitable clutch tool on ebay. The P/N is 88713.2556 and most dealers want around $280 for it. I don't think that's a coincidence.

If anyone has successfully done this without removing the big nut, I'd like to hear about it. Hmm, maybe if I lay the bike on it's side?
 

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zippy49 said:
After reviewing the service manual again it appears that the "service pins" that they call for are actually bolts that hold the assembly together against pressure from the four springs labeled #11 on the diagram. These springs help release the clutch pack, and I can't remember seeing them on any other bike. So these are the 5mm bolts or studs with nuts that are needed for the job. The thread into part #12, which is why they want you to remove the big nut. I suspect that if you just pull the pressure plate off without these "pins" the springs would fall out of place. Sounds tough to reassemble.

Unfortunately, I have not found a suitable clutch tool on ebay. The P/N is 88713.2556 and most dealers want around $280 for it. I don't think that's a coincidence.

If anyone has successfully done this without removing the big nut, I'd like to hear about it. Hmm, maybe if I lay the bike on it's side?
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When I asked member fregilb on ducati.ms he said he just held the rear brake and put it in gear to remove the nut.

Worth noting is that the 2013/14 and 2015 stackup is totally different. The 2013 actually has a form of spring washer they call a "convex driven plate", in addition to several various thickness driven plates in the stack, rather than the simple 2015 setup. Thus, we will have to make sure to place the judder spring in a position that lets it ride on a flat driven plate and not the convex driven plate. I think this means putting it inboard. Kinda confusing.

I'm wondering where 'brentfrank' put it. He only posted once, and posted a duplicate post on another forum, and never again. It popped up while researching this very issue :confused: Ducati APTC clutch sucks, does your's? | PNW Riders

haPqCxH.jpg
 
Now we are getting somewhere. Here is the Monster 821 assembly - note that the "convex driven (steel) plate" is replaced by a plain 1.5mm plate like the rest. We will need that added to the Barnett kit.

The stated total stack height for the Monster is 53.5 mm. When I add up the stack on the 2013 pack it comes to only 51.8 mm, although the convex plate might take up some of the difference. The mix of thick vs thinner plates is different, too.
 

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zippy49 said:
Now we are getting somewhere. Here is the Monster 821 assembly - note that the "convex driven (steel) plate" is replaced by a plain 1.5mm plate like the rest. We will need that added to the Barnett kit.

The stated total stack height for the Monster is 53.5 mm. When I add up the stack on the 2013 pack it comes to only 51.8 mm, although the convex plate might take up some of the difference. The mix of thick vs thinner plates is different, too.
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Do you think there's any reason we couldn't run the convex plate AND the judder spring? It's obvious the convex plate isn't doing much, if we're all here complaining about it.

Also, I measured the new Barnett friction plate at 3.44mm overall (the base metal the friction material is glued to is 2.5mm). The judder spring & spacer maximum height is 3.6mm and fully compressed height is 2.42mm.
 
kuksul08 said:
Do you think there's any reason we couldn't run the convex plate AND the judder spring? It's obvious the convex plate isn't doing much, if we're all here complaining about it.

Also, I measured the new Barnett friction plate at 3.44mm overall (the base metal the friction material is glued to is 2.5mm). The judder spring & spacer maximum height is 3.6mm and fully compressed height is 2.42mm.
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Funny thing, I just had a caliper out to do the same. I think that if the total height is close (there's a stated tolerance) it will be fine.

For all we know that convex plate is part of the problem. I'd feel better if it was as close to the 2015 spec as possible. A suitable steel plate won't add much to the cost.

Kuksul, I just looked at the back of Chance's biz card and found a note. He denied having a spring or seat for me and wondered where you got yours. I did email him the pic. Did you speak with Mike? Hopefully they will get this straightened out.
 
zippy49 said:
Funny thing, I just had a caliper out to do the same. I think that if the total height is close (there's a stated tolerance) it will be fine.

For all we know that convex plate is part of the problem. I'd feel better if it was as close to the 2015 spec as possible. A suitable steel plate won't add much to the cost.

Kuksul, I just looked at the back of Chance's biz card and found a note. He denied having a spring or seat for me and wondered where you got yours. I did email him the pic. Did you speak with Mike? Hopefully they will get this straightened out.
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Huh... weird. Mark (Mike maybe?) said he knew exactly which one it was since they only have one Ducati clutch kit with that spring. Maybe it's from the Hyper 1100 dry clutch kit.

Agree on trying to match the 2015, within reason. Not sure how we can reconcile the different plate thicknesses. I'm not sure I understand Ducati's logic with our stackup. Maybe there is no logic, and they just stacked random thicknesses until it was a height that worked.

Barnett does sell a Hyperstrada clutch kit with all friction plates and steel plates. Maybe this, coupled with the special red clutch plate and judder spring that I received, is the optimal conversion.
https://www.barnettclutches.com/2033/ducati/0/0/2014-ducati-hypermotard-hyperstrada.html

Barnett Clutch Kit Ducati 821 Hypermotard 2013 2014 306 25 20010 | eBay
 
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I'm willing to believe that the 2.8mm number is a typo. The 2015 set specifies 3.5mm. I agree that the mix of thicknesses seems strange, but I'll point out that the clutch service pages in the 2015 Monster manual I have are also out of order. The pages are numbered correctly, but the info is backwards - starts with reassembly!

If we can talk the guys at Barnett into making the kit as you suggest, it would also fit the 2015 and later 821s. They won't have the volume as for other brands, but it's an easy kit with off-the-shelf parts. You have had better luck with them than I have, and are probably closer to installing it, feel like asking?
 
So you think we need to include a flat driven steel plate with 1.5mm thickness in the retrofit kit?
 
Zippy is this what you figured as well?

6mQjxzN.jpg


Edit: I think for the 2015 Hyper it is a typo. The Driven (turned) should be 1.5mm, and the Drive (Narrow w/Judder) should be 3.5mm, which is how your Monster 821 states above.
 
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Yes but not in that order. The stack you show for the 2015 Hyper has it backwards... the first plate is the narrow friction plate, and it's 3.5mm thick. The anti-judder spring and seat fit inside of it. Then there should be a 1.5mm steel plate next. We will need that in the kit. When we're all done the overall height of the hybrid stack will be only 0.7mm thicker than before - less whatever thickness the "concavity" added.

I think it will work. I'm sure willing to give it a try!
 
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