Which programmer?

Araitim · Nov 24, 2017

With all the programmers out right now, what are the benefits / shortcomings? I am a competent mechanic but I must admit, i am lacking when it comes to electronics n programming. Rexxer EVO, Bazzaz, Healtech, Power Commander V(numerous models that i don't know the difference), RapidBike evo, Termi Upmap, RapidBike exclusive self, RapidBike bypass plug, Brazzaz Fi-fuel commander, "My Tuning" can-bus auto tuning module, SC projects AFM, Magnum Smart Tune, ETC ETC. There are so many it makes my head spin. I'm not looking for tweaking the every last hp from the bike but to be able to ride in all weather without having to go to the dyno. Is there a system that you just set it and forget it? Some of these come with o2 sensors, do they replace the oem sensors or will I need to weld new bung's for new sensors? My bike is a 13 hypermotard non-sp with a Shift tech slip on, exhaust flapper removed and Giuseppe intake with BMC filter. I read numerous threads about these, some with incomplete data stating things like "no new updates" for Termi (was a year old post). I think a complete thread about what each unit does and personal experience would help many people. Much like the Drz pages with their master jetting/master mod sticky threads.
Side note, I just ordered my Shift Tech exhaust yesterday, they are having a Thanksgiving day sale.

kuksul08 · Nov 24, 2017

I'll write something up to try to help

Araitim · Nov 24, 2017

kuksul08 said:
I'll write something up to try to help

Thank you very much! I really appreciate this.

novaryan · Nov 24, 2017

I hear you on that. All I want to do is disable the flapper and make it run richer. Or turn off the O2s.

kuksul08 · Nov 24, 2017

In an ideal world, you would want to disable O2's by flashing the ECU so that you don't get an error light (if you simply unplug the O2's, they are disabled, but it will give you an error on the dash). AFAIK the only way to do this is with the Rexxer software.

Then, you'd want to use a fuel tuner to adjust the entire map based on dyno or street tuning. Or, send your dyno data to Rexxer and they could create a custom fuel correction map to be uploaded with their software.

The middle ground here is the Rapidbike EVO, which spoof's the O2 sensor signals so the ECU thinks everything is running as it should be, and lets you tweak the entire fuel table. As such this is the cheapest and most effective option IMO.

Power commander cannot be used unless you disable or unplug O2's.
Bazazz is kinda crappy because they have you splicing into multiple wires. The Rapidbike only taps one wire, the rest is plug and play.

Araitim · Nov 24, 2017

kuksul08 said:
In an ideal world, you would want to disable O2's by flashing the ECU so that you don't get an error light (if you simply unplug the O2's, they are disabled, but it will give you an error on the dash). AFAIK the only way to do this is with the Rexxer software.

Then, you'd want to use a fuel tuner to adjust the entire map based on dyno or street tuning. Or, send your dyno data to Rexxer and they could create a custom fuel correction map to be uploaded with their software.

The middle ground here is the Rapidbike EVO, which spoof's the O2 sensor signals so the ECU thinks everything is running as it should be, and lets you tweak the entire fuel table. As such this is the cheapest and most effective option IMO.

Power commander cannot be used unless you disable or unplug O2's.
Bazazz is kinda crappy because they have you splicing into multiple wires. The Rapidbike only taps one wire, the rest is plug and play.

Do all of these just trick the O2 sensors and build off of That? What about the kits that come with O2 sensors? Best bang for the buck that actually works and has minimal specialist tuning is the RapidBike EVO? It's like ~$600 from what I have seen. Also, there are a ton of other modules, is the evo the only piece needed? I read somewhere that someone gained a cruise controll feature with one of these, is it the EVO? That would be very handy while commuting.

kuksul08 · Nov 24, 2017

Araitim said:
Do all of these just trick the O2 sensors and build off of That? What about the kits that come with O2 sensors? Best bang for the buck that actually works and has minimal specialist tuning is the RapidBike EVO? It's like ~$600 from what I have seen. Also, there are a ton of other modules, is the evo the only piece needed? I read somewhere that someone gained a cruise controll feature with one of these, is it the EVO? That would be very handy while commuting.

Only the Rapidbike tricks the O2 sensors, it's $525. You can get a wideband O2 sensor hooked up to the bike which is different than the sensors that come on the bike, which are called narrowband. The wideband sensor is a much higher resolution sensor that can tune the bike as you ride it. You'd have to get bungs welded in.

Sure you could get the auto-tune module for a power commander, but the whole time you'll have the power commander fighting the ECU for control as long as the factory O2's are still hooked up.

I don't think any of them have a cruise control. One guy here was working on a kit but it never came to fruition I don't think.

Other modules like quick shift and auto tuning are extra, not needed.

ferdi · Nov 25, 2017

if you own a euro3 bike (821), rexxer can disable o2.
this runs really nice.
for my new euro4 939 rexxer unfortunatly has no possibility to disable o2 at time, maybe in the future.
but i have a rexxertune now which runs better than stock, but still with o2 regulation, and satisfies me.

BadToTheBown · Nov 25, 2017

I've gone Rexxer. Any recommendations on who might have a map for my mods?

Araitim · Aug 18, 2018

Checking back for a follow up on these programmers. I ended up with the rapidbike evo and it ran fantastic for a while but now I'm having issues with sputtering, popping and backfiring. In working with rapidbike tech directly and he is going in remotely to make adjustments. I am supposed to do 100 miles and call him back. The bike is just no fun to ride at this point. No engine lights but when trying to hold a steady speed between 4000-6000rpm the bike is constantly jumping and bucking. I did the Kuk map and that narrowed down the bucking to between 4500-5500ish. I marked the throttle housing with tape to get a accurate idea of where in the throttle position it is happening at and it is between 20-40% throttle turn. If we cant get this worked out I'll be switching to a different programmer. I'm eyeballing the Rexxer because I could clear maint codes and reset TPS but looking for more input. Any input would be helpful. The bike is an 13 with the BMC filter and Starace filter housing. Aprilia coil swap, new plugs a couple hundred miles ago, shift-tech slip on, exhaust flapper removed, TPS & can bus recall & software update about 200 miles ago. Valve clearances checked and in spec, belt inspection and tension checked, oil change a couple hundred miles ago.
I have read somewhere that all the 13 bikes had a recall/technical service bulletin to replace the throttle tube but they didnt mention it when I was at the dealer 200 miles ago. A little help here. I was extremely happy with the power and its delivery when the Kuksul08 map was initially installed. That is my goal but I need to be able to hold a speed. I use the bike as a daily driver and do a bit of city riding each day

kuksul08 · Aug 18, 2018

Araitim said:
Checking back for a follow up on these programmers. I ended up with the rapidbike evo and it ran fantastic for a while but now I'm having issues with sputtering, popping and backfiring. In working with rapidbike tech directly and he is going in remotely to make adjustments. I am supposed to do 100 miles and call him back. The bike is just no fun to ride at this point. No engine lights but when trying to hold a steady speed between 4000-6000rpm the bike is constantly jumping and bucking. I did the Kuk map and that narrowed down the bucking to between 4500-5500ish. I marked the throttle housing with tape to get a accurate idea of where in the throttle position it is happening at and it is between 20-40% throttle turn. If we cant get this worked out I'll be switching to a different programmer. I'm eyeballing the Rexxer because I could clear maint codes and reset TPS but looking for more input. Any input would be helpful. The bike is an 13 with the BMC filter and Starace filter housing. Aprilia coil swap, new plugs a couple hundred miles ago, shift-tech slip on, exhaust flapper removed, TPS & can bus recall & software update about 200 miles ago. Valve clearances checked and in spec, belt inspection and tension checked, oil change a couple hundred miles ago.
I have read somewhere that all the 13 bikes had a recall/technical service bulletin to replace the throttle tube but they didnt mention it when I was at the dealer 200 miles ago. A little help here. I was extremely happy with the power and its delivery when the Kuksul08 map was initially installed. That is my goal but I need to be able to hold a speed. I use the bike as a daily driver and do a bit of city riding each day

Keep in mind 20-40% throttle at the grip is only about 10-15% of the throttle butterflies, and also dependent on RPM; the butterflies don't open to 100% until around 7000RPM.

Araitim · Aug 19, 2018

kuksul08 said:
Keep in mind 20-40% throttle at the grip is only about 10-15% of the throttle butterflies, and also dependent on RPM; the butterflies don't open to 100% until around 7000RPM.

I have been doing more searching and apparently the recall/tab on the throttle sending unit is only addressed if you specifically say something. Could this be my issue? The trouble people are having with the 13 throttle usually puts the bike in limp home mode. My bike isnt going into limp home mode. I'm pulling the spark plugs today to see how rich/lean it's running. I'm also contemplating pulling the fuel pump to see if there is a fuel filter or any visible issues. Last time I had the tank off I drained it completely, put the bike in the back of the truck, went to the gas station and started filling the truck with premium. After a few gallons I moved over to fill the bike to assure I was getting good quality gas(when I had my supermoto I remember reading that if the person who pumped gas before you used regular gas on a single pump nozzle pump, there is still 1-3 gallons of regular gas in the line before you actually get premium so I wanted to assure I was getting premium). I also intend on inspecting n cleaning the throttle bodies while the tank is off to make sure they arent sticking at all. I kind of want to do a kehin fcr carb swap at this point(a pipe dream) or remove every connector and directly solder and heat shrink every connector point(also a pipe dream but I read that some connectors could cause these issues).

kuksul08 · Aug 19, 2018

Absolutely you should have the throttle replaced if you haven't yet. I'm pretty sure it's an actual recall, not just a voluntary thing, because it affects your safety.

Gaffler · Aug 19, 2018

Any experience with the Termignoni T800? I feel like the performance map that came with the full Termignoni exhaust is lacking. I have the Modded air box from starace and a sprint air filter

gatdammit · Aug 20, 2018

Araitim said:
Checking back for a follow up on these programmers. I ended up with the rapidbike evo and it ran fantastic for a while but now I'm having issues with sputtering, popping and backfiring. In working with rapidbike tech directly and he is going in remotely to make adjustments. I am supposed to do 100 miles and call him back. The bike is just no fun to ride at this point. No engine lights but when trying to hold a steady speed between 4000-6000rpm the bike is constantly jumping and bucking. I did the Kuk map and that narrowed down the bucking to between 4500-5500ish. I marked the throttle housing with tape to get a accurate idea of where in the throttle position it is happening at and it is between 20-40% throttle turn. If we cant get this worked out I'll be switching to a different programmer. I'm eyeballing the Rexxer because I could clear maint codes and reset TPS but looking for more input. Any input would be helpful. The bike is an 13 with the BMC filter and Starace filter housing. Aprilia coil swap, new plugs a couple hundred miles ago, shift-tech slip on, exhaust flapper removed, TPS & can bus recall & software update about 200 miles ago. Valve clearances checked and in spec, belt inspection and tension checked, oil change a couple hundred miles ago.
I have read somewhere that all the 13 bikes had a recall/technical service bulletin to replace the throttle tube but they didnt mention it when I was at the dealer 200 miles ago. A little help here. I was extremely happy with the power and its delivery when the Kuksul08 map was initially installed. That is my goal but I need to be able to hold a speed. I use the bike as a daily driver and do a bit of city riding each day

Araitim,
I'm having the exact same issue with mostly the same mods. Mine runs great until about 170 deg F, then the exact same issues you state above start. Also, my issues developed slowly. The sputtering/bogging was very slight in the 4000-6000 steady RPM range at first, and after a couple months is very bad. Also noticed more backfiring when shifting or decelerating.

My TPS was replaced in 2015, and I've had my EVO for about the same length of time with no issues. I moved from US to Europe about 7 months ago, and first sign of this issue was about 3 months ago. I loaded Kuk's map around same time you did with no joy. I'm about to tear it down for starter, clutch fix, new fuel line, and some other minor work. Gonna give it a thorough line and security trace. Worst case for me is it goes in for 18K valve service in about 3K miles and I can have the shop work on it; however, I'm worried they will just blame it on the EVO. Good news for me is I'm in Italy, and the unit is made here and very popular tuner.

Also, after up to temp and run on the hwy for 15-20 mins, it almost stalls when I come to a stop and idle. The RPMs cycle very low, with the rhythm about once per second. They initially will drop so low that my high beams cut off. I can tap the throttle to wake it a bit and somewhat return to a stable idle.

gatdammit · Aug 20, 2018

Everything I read indicates running rich, but most of the literature is for older, carburated motors. Still, exact same symptoms.

Have you tried disconnecting the EVO? I have a blanker plate for the EVO unit to run like factory spec off ECU. May try that but I have some maintenance to do before I can actually run the bike on the road.

Araitim · Aug 20, 2018

gatdammit said:
Everything I read indicates running rich, but most of the literature is for older, carburated motors. Still, exact same symptoms.

Have you tried disconnecting the EVO? I have a blanker plate for the EVO unit to run like factory spec off ECU. May try that but I have some maintenance to do before I can actually run the bike on the road.

Sounds like we have a out the same amount of miles too. I pulled the throttle grip assembly apart yesterday to take close pictures and part numbers. There was some grit in there but the magnet pickup. I havnt ridden it yet. You have a Block off plate for the rapidbike? As in, you can unplug the module and plug a bridging clip in without having to disconnect all the injector plugs and o2 sensors? I have tried unplugging the rapidbike and running the bike stock and I was alot better. I ment to pull the tank and inspect/clean throttle bodies yesterday but my wife had an "idea" which turned into me knocking down a wall in the house. LOL. I did the clutch mod over winter and it made the bike far better for me in day to day daily riding in the city. The bike will sit and pop while sitting idle. It doesnt do it constantly. More like a low pop idle idle idle idle idle popop idle idle idle pop idle idle poppop. I'll be calling rapidbike today to see if he can go in remotely again. I'll also be calling the delaet today to try and get in to replace the throttle.

gatdammit · Aug 20, 2018

On a quick inspection the other day, I pulled the boot protecting the starter lead connection. I was very rusted. To the point I bet my starter would run a lot better if I cleaned it but, gonna replace with Denso anyway.

So, it could be electrical. I think I'll include fouled plugs, O2's and exposed/ broken electrical leads to my deep dive. I feel failing O2 could be very possible. Have you tried pulling an O2 and running with it out?

Araitim · Aug 21, 2018

gatdammit said:
On a quick inspection the other day, I pulled the boot protecting the starter lead connection. I was very rusted. To the point I bet my starter would run a lot better if I cleaned it but, gonna replace with Denso anyway.

So, it could be electrical. I think I'll include fouled plugs, O2's and exposed/ broken electrical leads to my deep dive. I feel failing O2 could be very possible. Have you tried pulling an O2 and running with it out?

I tried disabling the o2 sensors with the rapidbike but there was no change. I took the air box off and pulled the throttle bodies, WOW, I am shocked about the horizontal assembly. It looks as though the previous owner let it sit for a long long time. Or the bike sat out in the rain and water made it into the horizontal throttle body. I cleaned it all up as well as the injector tip itsself using throttle body cleaner and tooth brush. I coated the corroded area(clean now) with some synthetic high temp brake grease to protect and help seal better. The areas I coated slide inside other housings and arent exposed to fuel/air flow. I didnt take it for a ride last night and its it's raining this morning. I started it and it idles smoother . I also noticed the ground wire to the rapidbike was pinched between the gas tank and frame. I cleaned that up too. I pulled the fuel pump looking for some sort of fuel filter but found nothing. I checked the plugs while I had it apart (new plugs 500ish miles ago) and they looked like they were burning good.

gatdammit · Aug 21, 2018

Fingers crossed, bro. Though, I feel a dirty throttle body would be affecting many more people. The autumn showers are very dirty here when the monsoons pickup, but plenty of high-mileage riders on the forum that would have similar issues.

Which programmer?

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